Every time this subject comes up, I say this..."The one thing that actually kills the deer and some people want to be cheap. Really? You pay all this money for a bow and then a dozen arrows to look for cheap knock off broadheads. WTH!! Let's be honest the average hunter MAY kill 1 deer a year. Most of the time it is a doe. Almost all broadheads come 3 in a pack. What's the problem? If paying $30-$40 for 3 broadheads is too expensive for you, maybe you need to find another hobby. Just my .02!
Thanks for all of the thoughts everyone, I sure got an education through all this. I am sure that some of us newbys to the forum don't know what hornet's nests we are stepping into when we ask questions... I appreciate the advice and have taken it to heart, I don't want to buy something that I know is being sold illegally or unethically. Undoubtedly as an American consumer I am sure that at some point in time I have bought something (unknowingly) that was one of the two, but as my childhood friend GI JOE would have said "knowing is half the battle." Now I know, so I can be informed and make a choice. Thanks again
Bob pm me an lets talk I might be able to help you out. I have a few packs of DeadRingers I picked up on clearance if you are open to using them. I'm not looking to make anything just want to help a brother out.
The Original Rage are made over seas as well. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the original & copies. I have seen both perform & there was no difference. Based on price you would be foolish to pay the extra cost. I can't see any justification for the price difference. Some companies are able to gouge the consumer based on advertising. Just my opinion.
I wouldn't do it for this reason exactly. It's not just in the broadhead market, or archery market, it's in all markets and it's thoroughly hurting the American marketplace. Everyone, go to BowJunky Media's website and listen to the podcast with Aaron Snyder of Kifaru. It's a good listen and might open some people's eyes. Even if you dislike Rage and think they're overpriced garbage, it's going to effect something you're passionate about at some point. I'm pretty passionate on the subject because it's blatantly breaking the law and hurting American based businesses. The best choice isn't always the cheapest, there IS a bigger picture Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here's a good article about the Amazon counterfeit product problems. It includes a short story of a woman and her husband who invented a product, patented it, and grew sales to over $700,000/year on Amazon. Shortly after doing so the Chinese knocked her off, stole a good part of her sales, and she was forced to lay off 8 people. That's but one story where there are many more to follow. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/08/amazons-chinese-counterfeit-problem-is-getting-worse.html
What is the difference between knock off products like this and xop knocking off lone wolf? I know the founder of lone wolf went to xop but I dont see how that changes anything. Is it just because its chinese markets creating the knocked off products compared to a western business? Im sure im missing something here someone fill me in
While we are casting blame we might need to look at the business models that are producing products in China and selling them at several hundred precent mark ups. If those margins are needed to substain your business you either have a piss poor model or your making obscene profits ....more likely the former then later.
XOP and Lone Wolf are both American-owned businesses fighting for market share. Whether you buy LW or XOP the money from those transactions stays here - all of it in LW's case, some of it in XOP's. Both companies employ American workers, pay American taxes, etc. More of LW's money stays in the US than XOP's because their products are produced State side, but that's a whole separate discussion. Healthy competition between American owned businesses is a good thing for all of us. It keeps quality up and prices in check.
If that were the case there would be tens of thousands of successful businesses out there with "piss poor" models. First and foremost, the pursuit of profit is what capitalism is based on. The minute we start telling companies they're "too profitable" we sound like a bunch of commies. Better get your Bernie shirt on if you're going to talk like that.
You need to reread and think a little deeper rather then grabbing for the first overly simplistic for sound bite that comes to mind. Why is this a piss poor model? They have a piss poor model because their total costs are too high, think advertising budgets and sponsorships. The companies that are importing cheap china crap have huge margins but low gross profits. This can be readily seen in the valuation estimates when the are purchased by the likes of feradyne, TOG, Plano, ect ect . If that wasn't the case the valuations would be higher. The insanely low production cost of the cheap China crap they import opens themselves up to competition from both knockoff production and similar domestic importers. Copy cat sellers reap the benefits of the low cost of production without the high unnecessary overhead. All point to a less than ideal model for the original companies.
While I agree with your idea of capitalism, it leads to wonder how much profit can a company make before they are call out for overpricing. Don't get me wrong, I have a homebased t-shirt screenprinting business and I have to price my work to compete with other business. We live on the southern Texas border and we sometimes are asked to compete with business in Mexico and that is where I draw the line when they are selling the same product at almost at a fraction of the price. I am as patriotic as the next guy but if companies are going to use the "Patriotic excuse" then they should keep the manufacturing here in the states instead of getting it done overseas and selling here. My wife and I are victims of layoffs due to a manufacturer shipping the product overseas. They went on to make more money and we went to the unemployment line. The China prices gives you an idea how much the profit margin is. I know that the Chinadermic broadhead is a copycat and not as good quality but it still shows the profit margin that is being made on these broadheads ($15 per broadhead shipping not included compared to $1.10 per broadhead, includes shipping) There is a point when capitalism turns to price gouging. Another example of excessive pricing is YETI coolers. There are several companies that have just as good a product and are way cheaper.
After inspecting a china hypodermic this weekend I can tell you these things are the most poorly made Ive ever seen. A customer sent us a china Rage Hypo so we could made a video of how to sharpen it using our broadhead sharpening guide. The blade grind was terrible, crocked and jagged. This thing could not cut a banana. It looked like it was sharpened by hand on a course grinding wheel. We used our guide and in short order converted a dull piece of crap in an actual, usable broadhead.
Overly simplistic like saying people have a piss poor business model when you have zero idea of what the model actually looks like? So I assume you've seen the valuations and looked at the financials for these companies that are being purchased? You must have an inside track on all of that info. Many of the products that are being knocked off have never been sourced in China. For example, NAP and QAD both make their products in the USA, but are seeing Chinese counterfeits pop up almost daily. Come to an ATA show some year and you'll see groups of Chinese manufacturers walking around snapping photos of the latest and greatest products that haven't hit the market yet. I've personally witnessed businesses kicking these guys out of their booths and almost getting into fights with them because they are there for one thing - to steal their hard work before it even has a chance to enter the market. And if they can't get it there, they wait for it to hit Amazon, order it and then steal it. And I certainly wouldn't call engineers, sales people, marketing people, warehouse workers, etc. part of having an "unnecessarily high overhead". The cost of designing a product, getting it patented and bringing it to market is steep. Make no mistake about it. However that's the price of doing business and all of that cost factors into the cost of the product. When you're paying lawyers and accountants $200 to $400 and hour it ads up quick.
Easy - the market will dictate that. If it's too expensive, people simply won't buy it. Many of them do, as mentioned in my previous post. However there are plenty that are sourced overseas. If we, the consumers, don't like that then we should express that by purchasing an alternate product that's made in the USA. If enough people make that decision they'll be forced to at the very least consider bringing things back to the US. Again, when looking at the cost of a product there is way more to it than just how much it costs to manufacture it. Using Rage as an example - they didn't get to be the biggest player in this category overnight or by selling direct to the consumer. For more than decade they've employed engineers to design and build the product, spent millions on marketing it so people wanted to use it, employed sales people to go out and sell it, etc. Not to mention the costs of lawyers, accountants, owning buildings, paying taxes, etc. That is a very major and very real cost of building and running a legitimate business. So no, they can't sell their product for $15 a pack and stay in business. Especially when the archery industry is still heavily driven by dealer & distributor sales. Everyone has to make money for this system to work. The Chinese have none of that cost - they simply rip off someone's patented design (which is illegal), produce a lesser quality copycat of the product, and dump it direct to consumer on the web. Without the money Rage spent on designing the product and marketing it so people wanted to use it, the counterfeit product has no market. They are, quite simply, reaping the benefits of someone else's hard work. Again, the market will dictate what the threshold for cooler pricing is. However just like with anything, you have people who want a product because of the name on the side of it. People aren't necessarily buying YETI because it's any better than any other cooler, they simply want to own what is perceived as "the best". It's the same reason people spend $400 on a North Face jacket when a $50 model from WalMart would do just as well at keeping them warm in the walk from their vehicle to their front door after work. Name brands still carry weight and perceived value that the consumer is willing to pay for.
In my experience they rattle and about 1 in 12 will not spin true. They are very similar to the actual rage for sharpness. I sharpened them with a lansky. If they spin true they fly just like the rage. Buy 6 spin test them, shoot them, and make the decision for yourself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
