So as NY opens more and more counties to rifle hunting I have accumulated a few guns to broaden my experiences Hunted with shotguns my whole life so the rifle game is a bit new to me (in the woods at least). First off..........here are the guns I have in my safe. Savage 30 '06 Remington 270 Remington 7mm 08 Marlin Lever 30-30 Savage 7mm Mag So now the part I am struggling with. I will take these guns to the range and shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards (as far as I can shoot at range) no problem. Then after some normal use........in and out of truck and normal hunting use I have had these guns end up "not sighted in" for lack of a better phrase. I shot a doe early this year and smoked her with the 270 free hand at 90 yards or so........later that night I had another doe stroll by at 50 yards perfect broadside.....I stopped her and shot from my stand anchored and rested perfectly still tucked behind shoulder...........she just stood there after the shot and then trotted off and continue eating. How the hell could I miss her at that range I thought. I took the gun back to the range and it was shooting about a foot low...........WTF?? I have had the 30 '06, the 270, the 7mm 08 ALL suddenly be "off".........sometimes just a matter of a couple inches but some pretty bad. Thankfully no consequences other then that missed doe. I need to get this fixed before I wound something and I end up breaking it over the tree. What am I doing wrong?? Is the recoil of a rifle different that I need to protect the scope somehow? Is it my scopes?? Is it my rings?? Is it my rifles?? Some guy told me I need to Loc-Tite everything on a rifle setup.............true? Thanks
I don't rifle hunt much but my rifle stays sighted in year after year. I'm just very careful not to "bump" it too hard. My dad installed the scope on this rifle years ago (its a Marlin lever action 30-30 w/ a el cheapo tasco scope) and it stays sighted in every year. I'd say loc-tighting everything would be a good start.
I havve a redfield on my Model 36 (like yours, I'm sure). I watched the guy set mine up, initially. He used blue loc-tite on all the mounting hardware. What makes you go back to the range (thinking they may be off, whether they are or not)? I couldn't hunt, worrying about it like that.
A couple of things could cause this Atlas. First thing, is that with weather changes, etc.......a wooden stock can and will change shape slightly and cause different pressure points on the action/barrel. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but it really can cause POI to shift by quite a bit. Most factory synthetic stocks are flexible junk too and based on where you hold with your front hand, or what part of the gun is touching the rest/tree when you shoot........this can also drastically change POI as the stock touches the action/barrel in different places from shot to shot. You can clear this up by bringing to a gunsmith and for roughly $100 they can free float the barrel completely (assuming wooden stock), and glass bed the action and tang into the stock. If your stock is synthetic there isn't much you can do other than upgrade to a better quality stock and have that glass bedded. Here is a quick video where the guys at Savage explain this in detail, and how their new Accustock addresses the problem. http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy/accustock/ I have a Remington 700 ADL in .270 that had the cheapo tupperware plastic stock. I had the same issue. Off bags it was very accurate, but otherwise it was hit or miss. I pulled the stock, bought a factory CDL wooden stock with the detachable magazine, and glass bedded the entire action. I also made sure the barrel was floated the whole way with plenty of clearance, and now it's one of the most accurate and consistent guns I've ever owned. Total cost after stock, detachable magazine hardware and mags, and a bedding kit from brownells.com was probably $150ish. Other than the stock issues.......it could also be optics. Lower end optics can and will change POI. It's just what they do. There are some optics with fantastic looking glass, but the mechanicals inside don't resist movement as well as some of the better known mid/top shelf brands. I also locktite everything on my guns from the mount, rings, etc. Most manufacturers will recommend around 20 in/lbs for torque on all the mounting hardware as well.
More than likely it's not the rifles. The rings and mounts are nearly as important as the scope itself, you don't have to get the most expensive stuff out there but I would definitely spring the extra money for solid mounts/rings. If you are not having a problem getting the guns sighted initially that could point to field use, travel, etc as a possible culprit for your problems. I agree with the statements about using some form of Loc-tite but I would also suggest metal cases. A heavy duty carrying case with foam and possibly rubber(between the foam and the outer shell) for all transport. They are definitely pricey but well worth it in the long run. I am weird about my rifles i.e. I wont store them in the back of a truck(even if covered) for traveling or on the floorboard of any vehicle. Inside the cab I usually lay them flat on the seat sometimes even on top of my sleeping bag and secured with bungy or seatbelt(no jokes please). To and from my stand I don't even sling it over my shoulder I carry it in my hands and I am freakishly careful when raising and especially lowering it from my stand. Unfortunately even with solid equipment bumps, drops, and vibration are a scopes worst enemies, all you can do is try to reduce them as much as possible. Good points about the weather above, we have relatively mild winter here in VA so I haven't really dealt with that but I imagine NY winters are considerably harsher.
Matt.....so, I'm the kind of guy who doesn't really get into all the technicalities of my weapons, so this may sound like a stupid question. How does the stock effect the accuracy of the gun? If the scope is mounted to the barrel, what does the stock really have to do with it? I watched the video, but it really didn't explain anything to me, other than how their stock seats the action and barrel. Thanks.
It is a lot like your anchor point for archery, if it happens to change then you will probably be off a little bit. Now for a rifle 100 yards isn't very much, so I don't think the stock swelling a little would make much difference at that range. My guess would be your scopes. What scopes do you have on your rifles?
Could be an issue with the ammo. Do you load your own ? Inconsistent load and such can do this. Are you using QUALITY optics ? Lower quality optics can be drastically affected by recoil. It would be like using a rifle scope on a slug gun- they're not designed for that kind of recoil. Some rifles are very sensitive to fouled barrels. So, if you're shooting at the range, and, on average, you're holding solid groups at 100yards over, lets say, 20 or 30rounds...You're happy. You go home, clean your bore, and then take the rifle out in the cold, to hunt. The cooler temps and clean bore shot will differ from your "fouled" barrel shot. If you're going to hunt with a clean barrel, when you sight in, you should run a bore snake through the barrel after EVERY shot, and, let the barrel cool down for a few mins between each shot. You need to create a consistent situation. I always cased(put away) my precision rifles with a fouled barrel, usually with 3-5rounds through the barrel Also, wooden stocks can expand and contract, leading to issues like this. Bring your rifles to a SKILLED gunsmith and have him go over everything.
The stock can come into contact with the barrel if not free floated and bedded. If the wood swells, the contact can change and that in turn can change the harmonics of the barrel when shot. Sounds minor, but can make a big difference in POI. Thats also why you never want to rest the barrel on anything when shooting, only the forearm of the stock. Even with a muzzleloader like a Knight, where the stock is screwed to the bottom of the barrel, you need to mark the screw head and stock and replace it to the exact same position each time after cleaning.
Lots of good stuff already mentioned. I can't think of anything else, because I've never had a rifle move on me without an actual incident. One time I had a base vibrate loose after a 2.5 hour drive, that was it. Blue lock tight fixed that. After further thinking... Dont overtighten your screws on youe scopes too, that could cause problems, also if your rings arent the greatest you might be putting torque on your scope tube & causing the internals to act funny & move.
After reading all the great posts, I still lean towards two things. Either the optics or the shooter. At 100 yards a skilled (not even an expert) rifleman can place rounds in a 2-3" circle with iron sights. One way to check your form is the dime or washer test. get yourself some dryfire ammo and then setup and place the dime (or washer) on the barrel and dryfire. The dime should not move. I would give one other suggestion a slight chance, someone mentioned ammo. Again, at 100 yards this would have to be some pretty bad ammo to change a well places shot by inches but it is possible.
No offense..............but this kind of stuff drives me nuts. I am very careful with my guns, buy quality optics, rings, and bases and I still have a hard time keeping a rifle sighted in for a long period of time. Even when I took the 30 '06 out this summer just to double check it for the upcoming season it was shooting about 3-4 inches high at 100 yards..........a gun I had locked in last year and killed deer with. Frustrating when I hear and see so many guys seemingly have little to no trouble with this yet I make a pointed effort to avoid it and still have issues.
No offense taken. Sorry to hear you have so much trouble. I think if I had more interest in guns then I would sink more money into a better scope/rings/etc. I only took my rifle out twice this year so I can't justify buying a high dollar scope. Its kinda funny though. I have over a grand in my current bow with some of the best accessories I could buy BUT I have one of the cheapest scopes on my rifle. :D
LOL............I'll live, but I won't lie, it has been frustrating with these rifles especially because with so many different guns it HAS to be something I am doing wrong. Never had issues with my shotgun staying spot on.
