Is QDMA & Trophy Hunting Selfish?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Justin, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Posts:
    9,884
    Likes Received:
    3,063
    Dislikes Received:
    18
    Location:
    MO/KS state line
    I'm a QDMA guy..hell I was practicing QDMA before it was freaking labeled as such. Do I try to impose my will on my neighbors...no. Their land is their land and what they do on it is out of my control which stops at the property bounderies. As a patriot and a believer and supporter of the USA/constitution I think it's wrong to impose one persons will on another and I'm a firm believer in the logic that one persons rights end where another persons rights begin.

    That said...that doesn't mean I have to be happy about the neighbor that invites 30 company personel to hunt his 30 acres over the course of a season and allow the local deer to be slaughtered. To me that's just gross neighbor edicate and flipping the bird to every neighbor in the area that cares about deer. I don't haggle the guy but I don't go out of my way to greet him with a handshake anymore either....personally I loath the guy and it's every bit as much my right to dislike someone personally for their actions as it is their right to do anything that's legal on their property. So, in short, I don't believe in trying to "force" anyone to act a certain way but I don't have to feel good about it either. Appearently I'm happy in my disdain and he's happy being party to having a negative impact on the local deer herds and that's where it ends.

    Even if I had the political clout to impose some sort of control on the nieghbors I wouldn't do it. I believe in persuasion, not revoking of free will. However I will continue to try to convince most folks of the advantages of QDMA style management. It's not about trophy deer or only shooting old mature deer. Done correctly, it's about having healthier deer and a broader range of deer to further manage/harvest.

    To those that complain about restrictions, first I don't agree with restrictions...I believe in cohersion and positive reinforcment. Point restrictions are a poor substitute for properly estimating age and that is the key to efficient management. Does and 3+ year old bucks are fair game. The problem with point restrictions is that (in MO for example) a 2 year old may be legal with four on one side while a
    5+ with four total is not..that's just wrong. I realize it's not realistic to train every hunter to age deer but that just makes the point restrictions that much more arbitrary. Better options could be used to promote folks educating themselves and passing on young deer....making it voluntary and appealing to do so not forcing the choice on them.

    I'm happy with the phrase, "Shoot what makes you happy"...if I don't like what is shot then I'm free to *itch and moan about it all I want to.
     
  2. picman

    picman Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Posts:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Location:
    NE WI
    coveymaster, I feel your pain. I have a neighbor who is much the same. He has 40 acres with maybe 5 acres of wood lot on the backside. He allows his employees to hunt his property as well as himself. He is also a "let it go, let it grow" believer. The problem is that someone is hunting that 5 acres EVERY damn day.

    I have a guy 1/2 mile away on the other side that shots anything and everything. Fills his tags and then has his girlfriend get tags. This is not local gossip-I got straight from him.

    We are 3 weeks into our season and the deer are already nocturnal.

    To me, QDM is like communism. In theory, sounds pretty good but in practice-not so much in most places.

    I will say it again, I have no problem with what anyone shots. Just use a bit of common sense and realize that YOUR actions do influence what happens to your neighbors....
     
  3. ICALL2MUCH

    ICALL2MUCH Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Posts:
    958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    IL
    First thing is first.

    QDM, and QDMA are NOT proponents of "management bucks". QDMA (QDM) also isn't telling people to wait for bucks to get 4 years old. QDMA's stance is simple - let year old bucks go, and manage the habitat and hunters, so that the resource is better off. Hell, QDM isn't even for antler restrictions.

    It is no different (in principle) than throwing back the "small ones" when fishing.

    It would behove people to read up on QDM, and QDMA before they spew what they have heard. It unfortunately (normally) isn't accurate.

    Whitetail Properties is a big national supporter of QDMA, but their usage of the term "management buck", etc ---- is WAY off base, from what QDMA's true value are.
     
  4. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Posts:
    9,884
    Likes Received:
    3,063
    Dislikes Received:
    18
    Location:
    MO/KS state line
    Yeah my neighbor is the worst of all worlds...not only does he let his illegals hunt the little 30 acres (which the north half is a huge natural funnel) but he supplies them with the guns and ammo, no idea what they do tagwise. On top of that he also imposes no restrictions or rules but follows the "if it's brown it's down" rule.

    Anyway, I can complain and gripe about it because it just sucks but nothing to do about it. I still talk to the guy when I meet him...who knows maybe one day he will alter his view of the world. I find the Serenity prayer fits so many of these situations:

    God grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;
    courage to change the things I can;
    and wisdom to know the difference.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Posts:
    7,305
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    I would suspect that 90% of people who say and believe they are practicing QDM, actually are not. Unfortunately the term QDM to 99% of hunters doesn't have the same meaning as the QDMA's definition. For this discussion TDM (Trophy Deer Management) should be substituted for QDM. Afterall, like Whitetail Properties, that's what most guys are doing and what this discussion is about.

    But, things aren't going to change, so you actual QDMers may as well get used to your term being misused.
     
  6. ICALL2MUCH

    ICALL2MUCH Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Posts:
    958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    IL
    That's the spirit! :)
     
  7. Dan

    Dan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Posts:
    7,305
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Don't be pissed at me for not being on your team. I couldn't care less what they call QDM, I'm not the one bothered by it. I stated a fact that you're not going to change most of the hunters out there. If you think you can, preach on.
     
  8. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Posts:
    12,067
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Northern Indiana
    I know you don't target fawns brother, I merely want you to understand the idea or concept of QDMA or just simply a self imposed restrictions by a group of people or one hunter on one parcel can impact your local deer herd. Does it to an extreme where you'll go from not having P&Y bucks to a plethora...man I wish...but it won't do that. But it has most definitely increased buck sightings and seems to have elevated slightly the amount of bucks reaching 2 1/2 and more in our area. Part of it isn't that we simply don't shoot them it's that some of the yearlings that get wise fast feel the safety on our property and unless sex crazed they stick around more during the season in essence insuring more "possible" survivors from year to year.
     
  9. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Posts:
    12,067
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Northern Indiana
    Thoughts from others...had a discussion with a hunting buddy and he actually thought of this:

    Make there be two types of licenses. One which a hunter can purchase which removes all kinds of restrictions whether it be points, spread or age. This license will be slightly more expensive, as obviously for the restrictions to be in place the DNR feels they increase the herd's overall health. He threw a figure of 10% higher fee for this license.

    Then the other license would be for one which you must follow restrictions that are in place.

    I had never even thought about something like this...would it fly probably not, but what do you guys think of it's practicality, not whether it would be liked?
     
  10. Bootlegger

    Bootlegger Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Posts:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    317
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Crossville,TN
    I shoot whatever makes me happy on my land. Usually if its a buck it's gotta be a good 6 point or bigger. I eat Deer all year long. I guess It don't matter to me what anyone else shoots. In Tennessee were allowed 4 does during archery & Muzzleloader. Then a statewide bag limit of 3 bucks. Don't get me wrong...I love to shoot big bucks. I always let the spikes go. I will only shoot a 4 point if its a bigger 4 point and only with a Bow. Rifle season...it has to be an 8 point or bigger. Most of the time the bucks I shoot have to be like I said....a good 6 point or bigger with a Bow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  11. picman

    picman Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Posts:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Location:
    NE WI
    Tough call. I think at 10% alot of guys would ***** but still buy the "unrestricted" tags. Others might quit hunting...depends on too many things to really know.
     
  12. ICALL2MUCH

    ICALL2MUCH Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Posts:
    958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Pissed? lol
     
  13. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Posts:
    8,726
    Likes Received:
    3,796
    Dislikes Received:
    40
    Location:
    iowa
    Many of us will keep on laughing all the way to the taxidermist.

    Do you really believe that maybe seeing one buck a year is "normal" across the whitetail world? Don't impose your normal on everyone else. Across a vast majority of the whitetail world, some practice of QDMA does work. And it can and does work on smaller tracts as well.
     
  14. picman

    picman Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Posts:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Location:
    NE WI
    I get what you're saying....but there are way too many what ifs for most of us. If you had my two neighbors, I think you would have a different perspective.

    It seems like those who really are into QMD are those who have prime deer habitat. It is easy to protect those animals that use a property as their core area. Lets face it, deer will always migrate to the best habitat leaving less desirable areas with far less deer. If the deer are just traveling through, it tougher to protect them. Or maybe I should restate that to say, it is harder to see the impact of a QDM strategy.
     
  15. Schultzy

    Schultzy Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Posts:
    9,692
    Likes Received:
    5
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    QDM Isn't just about letting young bucks walk its also about taking doe's out too. We've got a good number of deer in the area I hunt in. We have an over abundance of doe's but yet they only give us one tag for the zone I hunt in. The DNR can play a big role in this too. Where I hunt here its tough getting age on our bucks. 75% on average of the 1.5 year old bucks get shot every year that frequent my dads woods that I hunt. It's not me doing that either, it's our neighbors. Yeah its frustrating specially when these same neighbors are *****ing we have no big bucks around. Most of my neighbors here think if you shoot a doe your not a "hunter". lol! If they didn't ***** we don't have no big bucks around and if they don't use the stupid logic your not a hunter if you shoot a doe my frustration level wouldn't be nearly the same. Shoot what you want with the right mindset. Eventually with the right mindset these same hunters will pass on to other hunters the right mindset and maybe just maybe we (my neighbors and I) could have our own little Iowa here in this small area of our section. It don't take much, it really doesn't.

    I will NEVER tell my neighbors or anyone for that matter what they should shoot unless of course they start *****ing to me that we have no big bucks around which they have. I just say your not helping the problem. Their response, somebody else will shoot him anyway. So much lack of education is all I say to myself when I hear this from them. I know QDM and APR's aren't the same but thought I'd throw this out there too. I'm honestly not for APR's. My reasoning, I don't want to restrict what one wants to shoot. The only reason I would support APR's is it just might keep some of the gun hunters from taking long range shots at deer that they have no idea what they are. However I would LOVE to see the whole state of Minnesota not allow cross tagging on bucks.

    In the end shoot what you want but PLEASE don't make stupid/assinine excuses up as to why you did. Be proud of what you shoot and be humbled by it. Rob here on B.COM has been hunting for 36 years. That doe he shot you would've swore it was a B&C buck. Them are the people I like to share my passion with. This hunting world needs many more like him. He gets it. So many don't.
     
  16. Dan

    Dan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Posts:
    7,305
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Don't take things so literally Willie.

    Instead of an intelligent response to my reply to you, I get a "That's the spirit!" I'm still trying to figure out what "Spirit" I'm supposed to have. I said in plain English that most people don't know what QDM is, they're practicing TDM. Also that you're not going to change hunters because the vast majority of them don't care what QDM actually is. They don't want more rules pushed upon them. They just want to go out, enjoy the outdoors, kill what they want, go home, drink a beer, make love to their wife and be left alone. They don't want some self righteous dude telling them what they should and shouldn't kill, after all, they are following the law and enjoying themselves. You just don't like that others don't think the same way about deer as you do.

    Honestly, QDM guys who try imposing their views on others are getting as bad as hearing a knock on the door, opening it up and seeing the Jehovah's witness standing on the porch. Let me live my life and I'll let you live yours.
     
  17. picman

    picman Grizzled Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Posts:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Location:
    NE WI
     
  18. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Posts:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    How do You think that habitat became prime? QDM guys like myself have been planting thousands of trees,shrubs, for years and decades creating that prime habitat. TSI logging. 28,000 Norway spruce for thermal bedding, 7,000 pieces from MDC for bedding, birds, visual barriers not to mention 12 total acres of food plots and 100 caged apple trees, 3 ponds. Many critters besides deer benefit.
    And the only way to preserve that prime habitat and maintain herd health is to dump 35 baldies/year that the neighbors who only shoot "their" buck won't do.
    The same neighbors who are ignorant to what QDM actual is also hug our wires like white on rice and benefit greatly from our sweat and planning. Would you rather adjoin a QDM property or the "Brown is down", public land,"I'll shoot what I want", crowd who is clueless to habitat and herd health?
     
  19. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Posts:
    22,703
    Likes Received:
    27,292
    Dislikes Received:
    26
    Darn those ignorant public land slaughter killers!
     
  20. Siman/OH

    Siman/OH Legendary Woodsman

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Posts:
    16,464
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Ohio
    Damn...where does my 2 year old buck i killed over a bait pile fit in with this QDM crap?
     

Share This Page