Being upset is one thing. I understand each person individually works hard to try and better their own chances for success. When you work hard to achieve a specific goal and someone undermines that by shooting a young deer you wouldn't shoot I can understand that feeling. I've felt it myself and it sucks, but it's also part of deer hunting. It's important to remember the deer don't belong to you, or to anyone for that matter. The minute we start to feel like we own them or control them and thus should control what other people to do/with them then it becomes a problem for me.
I'm guilty of the frustration mentioned here, but what Justin just mentioned above hits the nail on the head. We don't OWN these deer. People hunt for their own reasons. I'm happy for anyone who shoots and hunts ethically. I'm not a true trophy hunter, but I don't shoot anything that walks by, but that's me. Some people enjoy every kill regardless. Some people don't have the luxury of much time in the field. Some people live in a low deer density area, etc., All of these things play a role in how people decide how to hunt. Like Dan said, it's when EITHER side tries to pass judgement on one another that I have a problem with it. It's like the crossbow/compound, compound/traditional, archery/rifle argument. It just creates divisions among us, when there shouldn't be.
I don't mind people who practice it, but what I don't like are the ones that feel the deer belong to them. As far as I know only penned/canned/farmed deer are possessed by the land owner, all other wildlife are property of and regulated by the state. Hence fines for breaking laws, but penned/canned/farmed operations do not have to adhere by state laws and wildlife regulations in a lot of instances. Where this really gets me is outfitters. I've never used one and don't have any problem with people who do. I also don't have a problem with that outfitter putting certain limits up for spread/points to help with their goal. What I hate is that they can fine the hunter for taking a deer that doesn't meet their criteria. What gives them the right to fine someone or charge for the class of deer after the hunt? The so called trophy fee add on. That's what ruins the image of management. A stud 2 1/2 year old crosses the property line and is taken by a neighboring hunter, all of a sudden that neighboring hunter is the lowest of humans and has no respect for his neighbor. It's sometimes sickening Hopefully this made sense
The only time I'd say anything to someone shooting a small buck is if they complain that all they see are small bucks. A guy who hunts next to the property I hunted in back in IL asked how come all of us public land hunters didn't get together and agree to not shoot any bucks for a year so there'd be a crop of older bucks. (for him to shoot) There were 31 hunters there last year... we took about 60 does and 7 bucks. Somehow, I don't think we were shooting too many bucks. ...And as if you could get 31 public land hunters to agree on anything anyhow.. :D
We have taken 35 doe and 6 bucks per year off 140 acres for 37 years now. The bucks are from 120-190. Yes the neighbors dump 110 inch 2.5 yo's at will. But enough sneak thru each year to pump out plenty of mature bucks off small pieces. What you are not understanding is very few have 500-1,000 acres, it's all about a common vision in a coop of land. The average landholder in Buffalo county Wisconsin has 120 acres and that county is #1 in book entries in the world and #2 isn't close.
Age and 4 kids has changed my view on this and most things in life... It's just deer, fill your tags if you want, or don't...only you can decide if you are having FUN
What is Quality Deer Management? Quality Deer Management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints. This approach typically involves the protection of young bucks (yearlings and some 2.5 year-olds) combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy population in balance with existing habitat conditions and landowner desires. This level of deer management involves the production of quality deer (bucks, does, and fawns), quality habitat, quality hunting experiences, and, most importantly, quality hunters. A successful QDM program requires an increased knowledge of deer biology and active participation in management. This level of involvement extends the role of the hunter from mere consumer to manager. The progression from education to understanding, and finally, to respect; bestows an ethical obligation upon the hunter to practice sound deer management. Consequently, to an increasing number of landowners and hunters, QDM is a desirable alternative to traditional management, which allows the harvest of any legal buck and few, if any, does. QDM guidelines are formulated according to property-specific objectives, goals, and limitations. Participating hunters enjoy both the tangible and intangible benefits of this approach. Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience, regardless if a shot is fired. What is important is the chance to interact with a well-managed deer herd that is in balance with its habitat. A side benefit is the knowledge that mature bucks are present in the herd – something lacking on many areas under traditional deer management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, the pride can be shared by all property hunters because it was they who produced it by allowing it to reach the older age classes which are necessary for large bodies and antlers.
It's important to remember the deer don't belong to you, or to anyone for that matter. The minute we start to feel like we own them or control them and thus should control what other people to do/with them then it becomes a problem for me.[/QUOTE] Exactly spot on. I hate hearing people say my deer or get mad if a neighbor shoots a big buck they have been watching because they don't hunt the right way. The right way meaning they aren't hunting identical to said neighbor. If everything is legal then it should be good. I understand being upset or frustrated if someone else shoots a deer you have put a lot of time into, but I like seeing others have success too. I would like my neighbors to not shoot small bucks, but I realize I can't impose my will on others. I hunt in a shotgun group of people that are great people, but in my mind terrible hunters. If you are going to shoot a buck you should at least take the small antlers home and not leave them at our farm. You could argue that they are after the meat, but when you see where some of the shots are placed you can easily see they don't understand the anatomy of a deer. This upsets me beyond belief, but it is what it is and we hunt others land so it isn't up to me. The worst is when people start taking deer after hanging they don't want their shot up deer that they put a poor shot on. My grandpa used to love shooting button bucks. Said it was the best meat you could eat. I would have to say that he was probably right. Young deer are generally going to be more tender for eating. If someone is truly shooting a deer for the meat and their want is a better cut of meat than I'm fine with it. Other variable is some people don't get much time to get out and they want meat so they shoot first thing they see. I don't like that, but I can understand their choice. I personally try to hunt for a mature buck, but I like to get meat in the freezer before that happens. I'm in it for the meat because I've started processing everything and really enjoy making my own products. With that said I also love being out and waiting on a big mature buck to come by. Your chances of getting a bigger buck each year will improve with the little ones not being shot. That can't be argued, but to each their own I guess.
Might be a little bit of a side track, but it all lumps in I think...why do so many people look down at those who's "trophy" requires a certain size of antler on its head, yet think nothing of shooting a "trophy" based on the simple fact that is HAS antler of any size on its head? And vice versa.
Well said. My area is pretty similar to yours where small deer are killed, but big ones still survive. Our shotgun hunting group hardly ever gets a big mature buck in the second season. Guys that hunt same area first season only hunt bucks and they get some nice deer every year. Maybe I should be thankful most of the people in our group don't know how to hunt. Makes for better bowhunting for me. HA. I do know a person that owns some land in Buffalo County and at least where he is at most of their group and neighbors try to let the little ones go. That doesn't mean that others in the county aren't shooting small ones. He has shown me some very nice deer taken in the past couple years.
Actually, this is not true. Not even close. I have let bucks go on farms that were far less than 500 acres and was rewarded by killing them when they were 5 1/2 or older. Some of them I let go for multiple years. It does not take huge acreage to let bucks grow. It just takes patience and a little luck. Not all of them will survive, but I get so tired of hearing the excuse that if I let a deer go, the neighbors will kill it. Really? Not true at all. Neighbors miss. Neighbors can sleep in and not be in the stand when they should have been. Etc, etc. The only guarantee is that the deer will never reach maturity if you kill it as a 2 1/2 or 3 1/2. Let it go and you at least have a chance. By the way, my neighbors all hunt and they seldom kill the deer that I am letting walk. Neighbors don't have a mythical ability to kill every deer that crosses your property. Small acreages can and do hold good bucks. You need food, water, good cover and most important; you must LEAVE THEM ALONE. If it means never stepping foot onto a majority of your property, that's what it takes. Most guys will never do that. They cant stand not tromping around their land all the time and that will in fact kill more of your deer than anything. Refuge and patience will grow good bucks. That being said, I really don't care what my neighbors do. If they want to shoot young deer, that is their right and good for them. There are plenty of deer to share.
There's nothing wrong with taking a small buck or taking a trophy buck. Some people love just having a buck to show off and could care less about size. Its when people start looking down on each other for having a strict management plan or "if it's brown, it's down." Myself, I want to let the young bucks go to have a better chance of harvesting a nice mature buck. This year I will be talking to my neighbors just to get a feel of what they like to shoot and their goal each hunting season. I will also explain what QDM is and hopefully they will be give it a shot. Ive seen many times, this forum included, people just have no clue about QDM. Some think in order to shoot a big buck you have to cull out the spikes, which makes no sense at all. So these people that claim it to be selfish, most likely don't understand the benefits or don't understand some just like to get meat with some extra bone to go along with it. Like most have said already, it's not selfish until one side pushes their beliefs on the other. Edit: To the guy that said QDM doesn't work unless you're rich and have a ton of land. What? My family has owned our 80 acres for 6 years. By planting food plots and letting young deer go we have seen some better bucks running around. Last year I got the biggest buck to date on trail camera. Could it be better? Absolutely, but QDM has worked.
Selfish? I guess so... I shoot what I want, because it makes me happy. The odds of me EVER seeing a 150" buck on my 14 acres are slim to none, so a 120-130" buck is a for sure shooter. Anything bigger is a bonus.
But, that doesn't mean I am going out and shooting fawns or yearlings. For the hardcore QDMA'ers out there, if you take a child hunting for the first time and have a small buck present itself for them to harvest are you going to make them pass on that deer because they don't meet YOUR standards?
I was once a firm believer in QDM and in some areas and with some people it works fine. When you have DNR restrictions and neighbors that don't believe in it QDM then it is tough. Plus with outside factors as car kills, wolf and coyote you really have little control over what happens in nature. Now I am hunting more for the pleasure and not worrying about what someone else is doing because in the big scheme of things what difference does it really make. Take a kid out hunting and watch the look on their face when they shoot their first deer that's what it is about for me now.
Wow...play the child card, I know I for one and probably fairly unanimous even in the minds of some of the staunchest QDMA guys would be to let the kid shoot whatever is legal that first season...now raised by a big QDMA the kid may choose not to but if the kids happy let it be done as far as I'm concerned! I've always been a fan of introducing a youth license exempt from all APRs in some states (mine isn't affected though as we don't have one) that way youth say 13 years or younger can get hooked more easier to hunting.
Knot really playing a child card.. But for me, it's along the same lines. People who get mad about an individual shooting a young deer is crazy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
If I owned 10000 acres of land...would I practice strict QDMA? Probably. But lets be realistic here. Hunting is all about enjoyment and family for me...so I will shoot whatever I feel like. So will my brothers...or the next landowner over, ect.
Well said Fletch, I've experienced similar results on small tracts. Qdma can work on small tracts regardless of what the neighbors do.
