Loved for his accomplishments. Accolades. Moments. Then does something "shady to the public" ie- rape. Forever tarnished legacy.
I don't think Kobe's legacy is forever tarnished. Whether he "raped" her or not (it will never be fully revealed whether it was 100% consensual or 100% rape), when I think of Kobe, his career and legacy I don't think of the rape allegations or even his feud with Shaq. Kobe's legacy will be as the greatest Laker of all time, the greatest scorer in his era, perhaps ever, and the debate between he and Jordan will go on as to who the best player ever was. Maybe it is because Kobe's two media mishaps were before he hit his prime and he has accomplished so much since, but I wouldn't group Kobe with Tiger, LT, Pete Rose, Brett Favre, etc. Kobe is a global icon and looked up to by kids across the world. He's in the upper echelon of super star athletes.
Your blinded by Kobe love if thats how you view him...lol First off, hes not the greatest Laker ever, nor is he the best scorer ever, and the debate with Jordan...yea..NO. Not even close. And whats with the 100% rape remark...i didnt know there was a level to rape.
I didn't say there was a level to rape, I said 100% either way because it hasn't, nor will it ever be proven if it was rape or consensual. But you seem pretty adamant about Kobe not being the greatest Laker ever. Why? How is he not the best scorer ever? And strengthen your statement how Kobe isn't even close to MJ as the greatest player of all time?
When I think of Kobe, I think of a great basketball player...who was selfish, immature, not liked by his teammates, a prima donna, a cry baby, selfish, rapist, homophobic, hard working, selfish, determined, and not comfortable in his own skin. Kobe's stats say he is up there with the greatest of all time, but I don't think many would argue he is as great or greater than Jordan. I think Magic still gets the nod for the greatest Laker of all time, just because he was liked by everyone. Kobe's on and off court issues gives the edge to Magic...and he cheated on his wife and got the hiv, so thats how unfavorably Kobe gets viewed. Strictly as a talent, he is one the greatest the NBA has ever seen. His "killer instinct", also one of the best. He immaturity and inability to connect with teammates was his only downfall, basketball-wise.
Magic>>>>>>>>Kobe. Magic had the best all around game of all time. He could play all 5 spots. Greatest scorer ever? Come on now. Jordan averaged 30 ppg (#1 all time), won 10 straight scoring titles, has the playoff scoring records...the list goes on and on. Kobe is good, probably 2nd or 3rd....but hes not on Jordans level.
Most of what he is know for, he accomplished during the 90's (3 mvps 1 SB). During the 2000s, we were 10-6 or 12-4, which is a great record, but we would loose in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs every time (except 2007 when we were just one of his INTs away from a SB), and that is what I mean by mediocracy. I am greatful for what Favre did during the 90s to get the Pack back to where they belong. If he had kept doing what he did during the 90s, many more people would respect him. Instead, in his later part of his career, he gets into this "retired, oopps never mind" game which drives everyone nuts, gets into a mess with his heir Rodgers, and gets into marriage troubles. To me he was a great HOF type player who, because of fame and stardom, became selfish and self-centered. That is not the type of player I want on my team.
There are many former players/coaches who feel Magic was the greatest all around player the NBA has ever seen...period....never mind greatest "Laker" ever When magic (a point gaurd) was a rookie he filled in for an injured Jabber and played CENTER in the NBA finals...they won the title and Magic took MVP
Magic was one of the most unique talents the NBA has, or will ever see. He could play all 5 positions at an all star level and dominate the game without scoring a point, very few players in the history of the game can do that. Kobe will be a greater Laker than Magic because he's won more rings, and that's how Lakers are judged, by championships. Kobe won his titles with a weaker cast than Magic. Yes, Shaq, one of the most dominant players ever, gets partial credit for three of Kobe's rings, but Magic had James Worthy, Kareem and Bob McAdoo, three hall of famers. Shaq will be in the hall, but he's the only other Hall of Famer Kobe will play with. Gasol is a perennial all star, but not a hall of famer (unless he and Kobe can get another ring before Kobe calls it quits, then he has a shot). Magic provided a better stat line, but Kobe was a better scorer and a far better defender. Combine all those with the fact that Magic won his titles with the same nucleus while Kobe, on the other hand, had to build from scratch the second team that he won his other two titles with. As far as Kobe and Jordan, they absolutely do belong on the same level. Jordan dominated the playoffs, Kobe never has really done that. Granted, I have always believed that Jordan was a better player overall than Kobe, that doesn't dismiss the fact that the argument for Kobe being the greatest ever is still there and can be made very strongly. Kobe is a better scorer than Jordan because Kobe's more skilled than Jordan was. Jordan couldn't shoot the 3 like Kobe, and didn't have the footwork Kobe has. Kobe took Jordan's moves, and made them more effective in today's game against bigger, more athletic and longer wing players by adding multiple counters to each move allowing him to score with the same move from anywhere on the court.
There is a lot of truth to what you say, Cody. Kobe is an exceptionally skilled, talented, and hard working player. The hardest part about picking a "greatest player" in any sport, is the difference in the game/players of their respective era. Kobe was more skilled, I'll give you that, but I also think Kobe is "soft" and gets rattled. Could he handle the physical play of the 80s and early 90s? I don't think he would have been as successful as Jordan in that era. Now, imagine Jordan in the much less physical game we have today. There is also the argument that the NBA is more watered down now, too. Of course, this is all speculation.
There is no way to get around this fact, Bill Laimbeer was the best ever. He could come out of retirement and still dominate the game. Run as fast and jump as high as he did when he played. Can Jordan do that?
It's odd. Murder, rape, and all sorts of things happen and they're Hall of Famers. And then you have Pete Rose.... Mr Hustle. Most hits ever etc etc. The guy belongs but will NEVER be considered because he liked to place a couple bets.
Jordan worked for everything he got. Look at all the years he played and did'nt win! It is a team sport! Kobe has had greatest players around him. Period. Always! Like the Yankees butt L.A. Lakers! Kobe holds his head up like Obama, He thinks he's all it and a bag of chips! Yeah Right! Kobe had it handed to him by Lew, Bill, Magic etc. etc.... & Phil Jackson....where did he come from? No comparision! Jordan totally different League way past kobe! IMHO!
Kobe is a better scorer and more offensively skilled than Jordan was. That's easy to see. Kobe is also doing it in a better league with more athletic players. That being said, Kobe's legacy will never be the same as Jordan's base solely on the league he plays in and the off the court "antics" which some refuse to get over. It's funny with Kobe, if you read anything comparing the two everyone says Jordan was equally as hard to play with as Kobe is today. However, in the game Jordan did a better job of hiding his drive and frustration with teammates. Kobe is purely driven the like league hasn't seen since Jordan and, that drive...well, in his own words, "I have faced so much criticism for my drive that at times it has alienated me from the majority." I had a discussion with Luke Walton last week and he talked about Kobe's drive and how it is completely unmatched by anyone in the league. Players, coaches and teammates recognize it but, for fans, it's not "cool" to display his drive for winning the way he does!
You're right, their "drive" looks different. Jordan's always looked like his drive was to win, while Kobe's at times, looks like its for himself. Jordan was a better leader. Also, it was always Jordan's team (the Bulls). The Lakers didn't become Kobe's team until the love triangle was broken up. Kobe came out looking pretty bad in that situation, fair or not. I get the argument for today's game being more athletic, but it is also much softer. Athletic players are able to thrive more in today's game. Athleticism could be negated through physicality in the 80s and early 90s, except for the leagues top athletes. Kobe gets frustrated easily now (another knock against him), so I'm not sure how he would have handled the more physical play of the previous era.
Jordans career scoring numbers: 30 pts per game 50% from the field Kobe: 25 pts per game 45% from the field Jordan was the most unstopable force in driving to the hole for high percentage shots the NBA has every seen and as Vito mentioned...the NBA was a thougher league defensively when he played than it is now. How in the world are some of you coming up with Kobe as the better scorer? Look at the numbers...they tell the story.
