Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Bowhunting.com Staff, Sep 6, 2019.
have you ever used estrous or decoys during the rut?
That has what to do with what?
If you need to put on your Daniel Boone hat to sit over a corn pile and it makes you feel better ...have at it.
Personally I have no such delusions about what's taking place.
I want to thank everyone that responded to this ,what ever your view may be. reading all this has really hit home with my PERSONAL view on hunting. It's not the size or even age of deer. It's not the weapon, the place,woods, plot, orchard. It is simply the shot and how clean the kill is. Thats what makes ME feel like a hunter.
If it's legal where you hunt and the deer you hunt aren't by any man made means "trapped" or fenced in on the property then how would it not be fair chase? Are fish not fair chase if you put a worm on a hook? When we take to the deer woods with our 80%+ let off dual cam compound bows with carbon arrows and machined broadheads with $300 treestands and GPS enabled phones and $400 microwaves hanging from the tree kicking out ozone or whatever...how would ANY of that not disqualify us from "fair chase" hunting?
I don't think anyone is saying baiting isn't "fair chase" more of putting an asterisk beside it. People that say hunting over bait is no different than planting food plots have blinders on to reality. I think it's important to realize that not everything is equal and on the same plane. Hunting with an Atlatl is more challenging than hunting with a longbow which is more challenging than a recurve which is more challenging that a compound which is more challenging than a crossbow which is more challenging than a rifle. Recognizing the level of difficulty and challenge is where a lot of purists argument lies. Is hunting over a bait pile fair chase, I don't know but I know it alters the behavior of deer which does generally tip the scale favorably onto the hunters side.
I used to always say I was against baiting personally. That wasn't to say I felt it was wrong to do if legal, just not for me. However that was incredibly easy to say as I hunted in a state that it is illegal to use any kind of bait. Then I went and hunted Kansas. I remember hunting over a tree attached corn feeder one evening and that hunt forever cemented my belief that bait hunting just simply isn't my flavor NOR is it the same as hunting a plot or agricultural field. That isn't saying it is wrong....it is merely saying what it is. Skywalker laid it out perfectly. Saying hunting with an Atlatl is different than hunting with a long bow or a compound would never be met with the egregious responses and defensive knee jerk sensitivity that this topic does.
Both (bait and plots/ag fields) are similar in that they deliver food to deer...but beyond that for me that is where the differences start and similarities end. I cannot take control of my food plots (without I guess extensive fencing operations) and truly choose when and precisely what time the food is delivered/available to the deer possibly seeking it out. I also rarely make a plot just that is like 9 square feet big, pinpointing the precise and only location for the food to be consumed. Even in the smallest of plots I have and hunt occasionally do not have these factors going for them. To say that isn't knocking anyone else choosing to legally bait...but it merely is expressing why to me they are incredibly different. I also don't find bait necessary IF one has the ability to control and manipulate the habitat in most (not all) scenarios.
I'd also stress that while I'm opposed to baiting, I'm not necessarily opposed to a true supplemental feed program. This doesn't mean a few bags of corn every now and then, but a commitment (especially in off season/wintering time) to delivering incredibly nutrient dense food programs in both the quality of feed delivered but the consistent and never void of food to the deer due to such stations can cause deer to artificially remain in sub-par habitat in winter; and should you not deliver ample amount of food you could slowly starve deer in your area.
God bless ya'll.
I bait at some locations by either broadcasting by hand or a spinner strung up fairly high in a tree. I also bait some locations with food plots. Neither is a guarantee, you still have to make a good shot and not get busted. My bait is not always just corn and several we run year round. The areas we try to keep hogs congregated is strictly corn and alot of it. Very seldom do I hunt staring at a feeder or plot. Instead trying to catch traveling to and from. The very definition of bait is to lure or entice which is the common goal of baiting with a feeder or by hand and a plot. I don't always hunt near any bait that I provide and when successful these seem the most satisfying even though the haul out of the deep and thick is a lot more work. All the judging and justifying of one's preferred method of luring and enticing while looking down at another is just normal human nature. I'm guilty too. I don't see any difference in having a plot or bait field to hold deer vs a feeder location where a plot is just simply not practical, but at the same time absolutely detest deer hunting with dogs. I'm sure those guys put in work doing what they do but my mind is made on that subject.
Sitting 20 yards from something growing out of the ground, that the deer may or may not visit/eat is a lot different then putting out a 50lb pile of corn and sitting 20 yards from it.
You can say what you want, you're not going to change my mind. Because it's my opinion and like you, I'm entitled to it.
Not a single deer in this picture is within bow range. If I dumped a bucket of corn 20 yards from the stand, I would most definitely get a shot opportunity at nearly every single one of them. Huge difference. Both methods attract or hold deer. Only one of those methods puts the deer in your effective range every time they feed.
The plot is too big.
So it would be fair chase if I had a corn pile as big as his food plot?
How many bags do you think that will take?
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I could get on board with this deer stand microwave idea... A hot jimmy dean biscuit and an eggo would really hit the spot on a cold December morning in the stand.
I myself would rather not. I am thinking it more depends on the situation. If a property owner/farmer has a deer depredation problem he/she should have at it. Also, if a person has a hard time getting around, then baiting is appropriate. I would still want to be able to hunt if I ever became disabled.
Also, only one of the methods does the human have 100% as to when the food is present. I sadly haven't figured out a way to put a plot out only when I want it there or condition them to know it springs up during times I choose.
Do you hunt deer with guns too?
Black power only. And yes, I could shoot a much larger portion of that field with a gun. That being said, I like my chances at 20 yards much more. That field is over 200 yards long by the way. After seasons close, I dump corn to hang cameras over. I know exactly how it changes the deer movement and puts them in exactly the right spot and often before dark. I have hunted over a feeder in Texas and hunted over fields and plots, there is no comparison in my opinion.
I don't hate baiting. In some parts of the country (Texas) that may well be the only way you are going to get the deer out of the densest brush I have ever seen. I get that. In the thousands upon thousands of acres of pine forrest of the South, it may be your best and nearly only method to get a chance at a deer. I get that. But, to compare that to a field or plot is only trying to blur the lines of fair chase and normally done to allow the hunter that is making those claims to convince himself and others that the chase was just as fair and equal. It was not.
I have also shot antelope over a water hole. It was fun. It was not the same as the antelope I killed by spot and stalk in the open prairie. I have also sat on wallows for elk. That does not compare to the difficulty of chasing one up and over a mountain and finally calling him in. If legal, its all good! But its not all equal or the same by any means. We should all accept that fact and accept the fact that we all have different opportunities and different ideals on how to approach those opportunities. Just stop trying to convince yourself and others that your accomplishments mean something to anyone other than yourself, because at the end of they day, you should be hunting for you and your enjoyment.....not some accolade or affirmation from anyone else.
I said basically the same thing waaaay back in post #40.
A pile of corn brings deer to a specific spot, where as with a food plot, or crops for that matter, the deer could wind up feeding anywhere, out of bow range. Not only is it a big difference, it's the whole difference!
Can't say I'm really against baiting but I am glad MN does not allow it.
Food plot vs bait.
Let's switch this to crossbows next... Then rage BH..... Key-rist is it time to kill something yet
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