Im with you Jeff. Clearly (in just about all practical hunting situations) the only limitation is age and nutrition. From a management standpoint, I have never seen the point of harvesting a spike buck. First off, it take two to tango if ya know what I mean. How much of an impact can you really have on a whole deer herd by shooting him? Best do it before breeding season, or else your actions will be useless. Second, I have one buck tag, its not going on Jr. Third, it has been proven time and time again that spikes can grow up to be just as nice of a mature animal as a 1.5 y/o 6-8pt, if you let him. Bit of a rant there, but this topic always comes up as more of an excuse to shoot a little buck, rather than as an actual effort to manage the herd. By no mean am I against shooting a small buck, heck shoot whatever you want! If your happy, im happy. But from a management perspective, it just does not make sense to me.
I have often wondered if there is much truth to the culling theory. Reflecting back through my years hunting the Raceway I can say that I have seen distinct traits a majority of the deer have, yet there are some deer that would be bonified cull deer. These deer always grow 4 point racks that go straight up and are narrow without brow tines. When I look at buck sightings this trait is a minority by far compared to the typical deer that often have 110" of antler in their second year and close to 125-130" by their 3rd year. From there they seem to have minimal growth with few ever making 150". I saw a 3.5 year old this year from the "cull group" that I let walk, he was a six point since he had no brow tines but was a beautiful deer that would likely go 115". I have hunted this property for 6 seasons and this is the first time I have ever seen a buck from this group that was 3.5 and carrying decent bone. I honestly let him walk because I can only imagine what he will look like next year, even though I won't be hunting there. I have an invite next year to hit Pope County, Illinois to hunt cull bucks. I am being told they have unbelievable six pointers on the property that they are trying to cull out. I know of another area in Pope County where my father had seen a six that he described as a monster. IMHO they will never cull them out, after all these genes are carried in both sexes and you will never be able to cull the does carrying these traits let alone every buck carrying it. If they are accurate these older 4.5 year old sixes are pushing 130-140" of bone. I don't know about anyone else but if I can put down a 140" mature six then I am going to be all over it and don't consider it a cull buck, to me it is an anomaly and a chance of taking a buck of lifetime. Last but not least some recent articles I have read have found that many bucks in the 2.5-3.5 are doing a majority of the breeding, yet many of them are breeding a few does per season. Depending on buck doe ratios and dominance these cull bucks might not be breeding as much as we think, the Raceway is a key observation to me as less than 10% of the bucks I saw had the cull genes in them from my observations this year.
That is my point Jeff, I often hear people talk of culling inferior bucks and have never seen the sense in it knowing both sexes carry genetic traits for antler growth. I let a lot of smaller deer go throughout the season and might have taken my chances on shooting a larger 10 earlier in the season but instead shot a mature 10 that had already seen his best years. I know this because I have hunted this deer and passed on him in years past. I had a few opportunities to shoot and cull some of these inferior deer but what would be the point of killing a 1.5, 2.5 or even 3.5 year old deer when I can shoot an older and wiser deer? I wish people would spend more time planting food sources that allow maximum antler growth versus killing inferior deer hoping to gain a larger big rack population through controlled selection.
I do agree that culling is an incredible idea, on paper. But it is just not practical in a traditional setting.
I sure love this magazine I think its time to renew my membership. I will take age over antler rules anyday on the properties I hunt.
Im not real big into "culling", and we only have 1 buck tag in Ohio anyways, but i do know for a fact that their are at least 2 gene pools prevalent on my land. One is perfect (mass, split brows, droptines, width, long tines), and one that is rather not (thin and tall 3 and 4 pointers at 2.5 years old, usually with 1 messed up antler).
People who cull deer cull young deer, which means it didnt get to reach its potential to see if it needs culling in the first place. If you cull an older deer, well do what makes you feel good I guess....as he has passed his genes on many times over over the years. Your tryin to kill an elephant by hittin it with a flyswat. I agree Jeff, that in MOST instances, culling is simply an excuse to take a deer they otherwise feel shouldn't be taken. Take one too young? You culled him. Take one to small compared to what you feel you should hold out for? You culled him. Just be happy with what ya take, without the excuses. I culled a perfectly healthy 92" 2.5yo 8 pointer this year, just didn't feel he should spread his genes into my herd when there are 160" 4.5yos running around instead.
Okay. I see that. But wasn't he trying to get rid of the inferiorities? Trying to make [his thoughts of] the perfect race?
I believe most culling in Texas is done in order to control the antler characteristics. It isn't so much about size as points, if an older buck 4.5 y.o. has an 8-point rack they will remove him from the herd as they are trying to achieve a herd that is mostly comprised of 10 point or greater main-frames. Yes, this buck has bred does for the past several years, but by culling the buck, they ensure that he will no longer be able to breed. He may have produced 4 male offspring, but by culling they may prevent him from having had 7 or 8 male offspring.
Very true Jeff, "culling" has seemed to migrate it's way into hunting along with all of the wanna be biologists. It seems that everybody now seems to think that they are a biologist and practicing QDM. I was refering to the true QDM guys, culling is an actual tool for helping to minimize the rack characteristics that they don't want in the herd. For most guys, this is impossible to do, and culling in its true form is impossible. It is these guys that use the term for the wrong reasons.
I've been reading D&DH mag for many many years now. Here's my take on the subject of culling and the mags article. It's like coffee. One day you'll read its bad for you.. and 2 days later a report will come out that says its good for you. I digress. As far as I'm concerned.. I don't cull.. I hunt. If I ever say that I culled a deer.. remind me of what a tool I am.
I always thought a buck that has grown his 3rd set of antlers is a 3.5 year old. His first set a 1.5, second set at 2.5 and 3rd set at 3.5. A 4.5 year old has his 4th set of antlers.
I'm not privy to the article so I go by what I read and what I read was misinformation thus, I asked. After his 3rd set certainly makes more sense to be a 4.5 year old. Thanks.
I'm not privy to the article so I go by what I read and what I read was misinformation thus, I asked. After his 3rd set certainly makes more sense to be a 4.5 year old. Thanks.
