In which type of environment do you believe you become a better big buck hunter?

Germ,

Eberhart is an exception. You have to go back to the apples to apples comparison. Eberhart is a smart guy who puts in an ENORMOUS amount of time & effort to learn what he has. Imagine if he put that time & effort in while living in Iowa....one or 2 seasons, he'd know a lot more.

Take one of our own, Shed, he runs those mountains & lives big whitetails to just find a few bucks to learn from each season...if he's lucky, sometimes it may be 1-2. Imagine him (or anyone) being able to find & learn from 3-4 mature bucks, in 1/4 the amount of effort.

 

You are exactly right Rybo. Shed would have his own column in Deer & Deer Hunting if he lived here in Iowa. And his own show, and Tiffany would probably leave Lee for him. The Drurys would name a call after him and the Wensel's would invite him to Christmas dinner.

Seriously though, the opportunity to find and interact with mature deer is key and he would be like a kid in a candy shop here.

 

The time that I spent in a "target rich"environment helped me learn about mature bucks immensely. I believe that it would help to shorten the learning curve on big bucks.

 

First off guys, I appreciate your honesty in this post. I have read every single person's post on this thread. Great information. It also leads me into what I believe the most important part of any succesful old buck hunter...mindset. The hunter's mindset is the number 1 factor in what makes a big buck hunter succesful in any environment. I have not had that mindset over the years in regards to big bucks. I have slowly started turning the corner but am still a long ways off in regards to having the proper mental approach to hunting those amazing creatures.

Thank you guys for keeping it civil.

 

He does go to Iowa, he will tell you himself he learns more about hunting mature bucks in MI. Eberhart would prefer to hunt a public land mature buck over target rich enviroment because he would learn more.

Who is going to learn more about hunting deer? A guy with 80 dpsm or 15 dpsm?

 

I agree with this 100% and will take it one step fruther, not all mature bucks behave the same due to the environment and pressures that they live in. Ex, Its my opinion that the bucks of Tecomate would be much easier to get shots on than that of an old mature buck tucked deep in some swamp in Michigan. Which mature buck is gonna teach a hunter more based on his survival instincts and behaviors. Whether or not a hunter is willing to put the time in on those "tougher" bucks and willing to face many defeats along the way is personal to the individual bowhunter.

 

I agree shed

This is the way I look at it.

If I want to be a better big buck hunter(not killer) I need to hunt tougher more elusive bucks. No different than anything else in life. The harder it is, the more one learns.

That does not mean they are all not in target rich enviorments, a 180 in Iowa that is 5.5 or older would teach a hunter a lot.

 

I agree, been there done that now and those Old bucks out there acted completely different and traveled completely different parts of the property than the younger deer and does. I used the word "easier" earlier in this thread, not meaning big bucks are ever EASY, just that the environment that I grew up bowhunting and targeting mature whitetails in has made it easier when I get to hunt more target rich areas. Old bucks that recieve even moderate pressures and have plenty of room to hide out their entire life are still never "easy" to kill with a bow, even in a target rich environment.

 

Good points and I would agree but take it yet another step further. I dont necessarily think it depends entirely on what property they are on as it does the individual deer. There are mature deer that are very visible and easily patterned and there are mature deer that will seldom get on their feet in the daylight. I have hunted both types of bucks on the very same properties. They are all different, even on the same farm. The "tougher" bucks are definitely a real chess match where you better check your ego at the door.

 

Wait a minute. I just read on this site that any Gomer could go to the midwest and kill a mature whitetail if he just spent enough time in a tree. Guess I'll have to put on my bs filter and think this one through. LOL.

 

The harder it is the more you learn, only goes so far. If you are hunting bucks that you aren't even sure exist, how do you know if you are doing anything right? It just makes sense to me the more "tough" bucks you put yourself up against, the more you will learn.

 

" It just makes sense to me the more "tough" bucks you put yourself up against, the more you will learn. "

Another part of the statement would be to talk about whether guys are targetting specific bucks. No, I am not talking about "targetting" 7-8, 4.5+ year old bucks on a 300 acre farm. I am talking targetting 1-2 bucks that age over that same acreage. The term "targetting" can be misleading.

I would harbor to say that less than 5% of all guys that nail a big/old buck are actually targetting that buck, and are just hunting older bucks in general. Hardly anyone that I know of or read from on here actually targets a specific buck and then kills that buck. That is not a knock on anyone, that is just the truth because those older bucks are so hard to kill.

 

This is an interesting topic. If I wanted to learn about big, mature bucks and their behavior I would go to an environment where I could observe them. That would be a managed property that holds a lot of them. That way, I would maximize my time in the woods by seeing big, mature, deer and how they behave. I would also pay attention to where I was set up on these properties and how the deer use the land features in that area and how the land influences their movements. After sitting and observing I'd go back and look at my maps to see the bird's eye view of what I observed from the ground. This would show me both the big picture of how the big bucks are using the land and also the up close and personal of how those deer act and behave at close range. This would teach me a great deal in a short period of time. Then I could take this information and use it to apply to other areas I hunt.

The problem is to do this effectively I would need to go to a managed property and sit it for a week or two to accomplish this without a weapon in hand, because I know as well as everyone else I don't have the self-control to stay off the trigger otherwise.

Unfortunately this is not a luxury that I have, but I honestly believe it would teach me a great deal about big mature bucks. While I learn more every year I do not believe that where I hunt is a good area to learn because the mature bucks are so few and far between that my experiences with them are very limited and fleeting. Not too mention it's hard to focus on learning when I'm trying to keep it together enough to get a shot.

I think that in terms of learning how to hunt big, mature bucks starting out on highly pressured land with very few mature deer is like trying to learn trigonomotry before you know how to add. You may eventually get it, but it's going to be a long frustrating process.

That's JMHO.

 

another great point, individual deer are just that, individuals... no different than the dogs we raise as pets or horses I grew up with on our ranch, all had different dispositions.

 

yes, exactly, "SOME" mature bucks must be around to study/research.. you cant learn from big mature bucks if you have 0 around or if they are working the properties you dont have access too.. As a matter of fact the one benefit I have out west is I can almost always access huge chunks of public lands to learn everything I need to about a specific buck, I am not restricted by property lines so to speak.. Its hard to learn about a big bucks ways if you dont have access to the grounds he spends the majority of his time on..

 

Maybe for you... but not for others... not for most.

For you... in your example... you are learning through necessity... as in... "necessity is the mother of invention".

Which is fine... cause some people do learn better that way.

BUT... before there was lightbulbs there was dark.

Not everyone can invent the lightbulb. As a matter a fact... one did.

BUT MANY more will learn from study of the lightbulb.

And furthermore... hunting more elusive bucks doesn't mean a smaller population of older bucks anyway.... it could (and usually does) imply pressure... Which was never part of the original question.

And buck hunting pressure is an entirely different subject.

 

Bingo!!! Nuff said!!

 

No you didn't.....lol.

If you did.....quote it!

 

They exist. I love people telling me they dont' though. Makes me work harder and LEARN more:p

 

I "think" this is what you're referring to. And, I said it.

It's a far cry from what you stated, though (if you're attributing it to me).