Bruce, I hear what you're saying...the kids are a huge part of my life too. I 've had my 10y/o daughter hunting with me in Texas, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Africa. The both of us have enjoyed our precious time together. With most things in life, "timing" is everything, and I believe it is possible to have the best of both worlds-naturally, prudence is the key...
Great, great post Mike!! I think at times people take things for granted all too often. Been guilty of It myself In the hunting world. It's a good thing that the question In this thread doesn't really have to be one or the other In the real world. I want both (land and travel) and will continue to do both.
Yep. I didn't type much last night as my only access was by phone, and I didn't feel like messing with it. Let me elaborate a little. It has always been my dream to own my own ground. In fact, growing up my whole life on 90 acres of private ground pretty much ingrained the idea that I couldn't be happy unless I had my own chunk of land. Of course when I entered the housing market two years ago, reality, and a little unfortunate timing (major gas play) sunk in. There's a VERY good possibility I will never own land around here. I've somewhat started to accept it, I suppose, but it still stings a bit. All of the positives that members here have mentioned in favor of choosing land is why I initially, and almost unequivocally chose land. I'm fortunate to actually still live a mile or so from my parent's 90 acres, and I get to manage that with my dad as we see fit, and so, I'm not totally without the joy of having private property, but like many have said, I always wanted to just walk out my backdoor and hunt. I think many of the pains that Huck mentions are not pains to me (no offense Huck). I actually think the hunting aspect is only one part of the joy one experiences owning land. I love the ability to manage it as I see fit. Planting plots, trees, gardens, timber harvesting, setting/hanging stands when I feel like it and leaving them out for as long as I like, the piece and quiet (I've stated often that I am NOT cut out for residential living). To me, it's a simplification of life. A chance to step back and practice a lifestyle (even if it's not 100% of the time) that is without severe complication or stress. As for the boredom many have mentioned, obviously each person views their ultimate hunting goals differently. I have NEVER been bored hunting my 90 acres, and I've been hunting it since I was 12 (I'm now 26). In fact, I find that getting back into my stands after the off season is much like greeting an old friend. It's something I look forward to every season, and with each new season, the anticipation still mounts, and the experiences are just as great. With that being said, I do fully agree with the traveling aspect as well. While I will never be able to really travel to hunt while I'm still working (teachers just don't have the ability to take large vacations during hunting seasons), I do fully intend to take at least one trip with my father so we can experience something different together, and since he's the sole reason for my passion in the sport, it only seems fitting. I do have the luxury of having ~10 weeks off every summer, and will (god willing) have this my whole life. This gives me plenty of time to travel with my wife, and while it's not hunting, I'm still experiencing new things. I think those that have said balance is a good thing were spot on. The difference? I don't think the travel/experiences need to be limited to hunting trips. I think a few of you said it best in that hopefully it's not a black and white choice as I made it out to be in my first post. To me, I'm still hopeful I can and will do both.
Great thread really...no right answer. 7 yrs ago I would answer land - 6 years ago I got a very small piece (35 acres) so I'm sure that's why it's easy to say travel - in reality the answer is why not try having a little of both...I know I want my kids to experience both. Good luck to everyone - bottom line - it's very healthy to Dream!
Matt, One of the real cool things about the World...there are two hemispheres. When it's Summer in the North it's Winter in the South. Places like Africa, New Zealand, and Australia are all very, I mean very, huntable during your Summer vacation. Despite what Jim had to said (no offense Jim), travel can make hunting a year long endeavor ( I truly wish everyone on this site could have met Scott Bevins, from New Zealand, in our Colorado elk camp. His tales and adventures were amazing. I believe those who did meet him would agree). As an example, I literally start hunting Jan 1st every year. I stop Dec. 31st. I totally enjoy the planning and the anticipation as much as anyone else. It really never stops! The people I've meet on the path is perhaps the one aspect of travel I like the most. Like I've said, many turn into life long friends. I had two South Africans in my home just a week ago. I had the pleasure of hunting with these gents back in July. Their trip here sealed a beautiful relationship both presently and down the road. It's a relationship whereas I get to PH for them on a limited basis now and full time after I'm retired. My wife (host/cook) and I will be working for free (imagine the exposure I'll have with world hunters while guiding-my own gold mine). They will provide us simply with room and board. When the camp is absent of clients, I assure you my wife and I will be hunting and sightseeing. I'll make enough in tips to bring both my children over, if they care. Really, the possibilities are endless. Globetrotting a month here...a month there, how cool is that? It is completely doable. It's all revolves around sharing life. Now, let's get back to the land. Most people think more is better, right? That's not always the case. "Location" is still the most important factor in real estate. 12 acres could suffice if it's located properly. Two things I look for when buying real estate are what I call, "the island in the stream" and/or "the control point". The island in the stream is just that. It's a piece of ground surrounded by something I desire-huntable land perhaps. The control point controls access to something I desire-huntable ground again. If you have the 25 acres, for example, which controls access to 150,000 acres, you have a mint! Places like this are out there (at least in the west-I haven't study the east much). You can aquire them with alittle due diligence and good judgement, without breaking the bank. Againing, timing is everything and you must be ready to go-which means you must have a plan! Yep, it's not black and white, and I can honestly say, "It's best to have both worlds". I hope my thoughts help...
Peoples life styles have as much to do with these decisions as do their financial positions. Some peoples occupations allow them the freedom to work from anywhere theres electric and Internet access, others are hands on and must be there, both have there plus sides. I have hunted across America, Alaska and Canada, and would not trade it for any thing, but those memories will never give my family the returns that buying land have. Will is spot on when saying just buying any property just because its for sale is wrong, but purchasing the right piece can be not only a finical windfall but an opportunity most of us growing up never had.Buy the right property and you just might be rewarded with enough cash to hunt at home and abroad.
There are definitely advantages to both, but what about throwing in the other big option out there today. A good hunting lease can be an excellent alternative, and a way to somewhat fulfill both sides of the issue.
A lease is indeed an option, and a coalition of "like minds", makes a lease even that much more attractive. However, the leasees are still subject to the rules of the owner. That, in itself, makes leasing less attractive than owning. Like minds can also incorporate and purchase land as share holders. Thanks Jim for the kind words. I agree with you 100%. I think the thing we all must avoid is compulsive purchasing. Every decision must be analyzed with extreme care. Let me toss one more thing out there. Many areas offer courses in real estate sales. With very little investment and time a person can quickly become an active real estate agent (much of the course work can be accomplished via internet correspondence). You can start your own firm as the "Managing Broker". There are a whole mess of regulations you must follow, but they're not that difficult to navigate. By being both the broker and the "procuring cause" in a real estate transaction, you are entitled to a commission. On raw land, this commission could be as much as five to ten percent of the land's sale price. 5% of $200,000 is $10,000. That's a extra $10,000 you can slice right off the sales price through negotiations (completely eliminating additional income tax and property sales tax burdens). Sell a house or two from your basement office and you quickly pay off the cost of your real estate education. You will also have money to apply towards hunts, travel, and land.
Sometimes reading threads like this is a little depressing because I feel I should have done or be able to do more things in life rather than just wishing about them.
I own 10 acres in nothern lower Michigan. I have an older but nice mobile home on it. I'm lucky enough that my wife loves it up there so, heading up and spending weekends up there happens weekly from spring to early winter. Now I know that 10 acres isn't much but, I love it. It's my heaven on earth. Now that both of my sons are done with football which took up my bowhunting time, I am getting back into bowhunting and I'm so excited. What makes it even more special, is that my sons are also wanting to bowhunt with me. I'm so glad that I've got a place to escape to and hunt on. For me, I feel very blessed to have my little chunk of land. I'll travel later good Lord willing...
For me, it's as simple as this: My annual hunting budget is right around $2000. Anything more, and I'm taking money away from the family fundage. I absolutely will never let my hunting cut into travel with the wife, having a nice home, nice furniture, nice cars, etc... That's just where my priorities lie. To each his own, but that's how I prioritize things. So what can you really do with $2000? Sure, I could go on a hunt with a buddy, but it would have to be a freebie. The entire budget would be eaten up in NR tags, food, travel costs, taxidermy, etc... Hunts are never "free." You're always into at least $1K in costs. Alternatively, I could wait every other year or so, and fork over $4000+ take a "real" trip where I pay somebody to show me an animal. That's not my bag, either. Being totally honest, I have little-to-no interest in guided hunts, semi-guided hunts or hunting exotic game. I live to hunt whitetails. The thoughts of hunting caribou, african game, birds, ducks, etc...just doesn't really excite me. I'd give it a try, but I really do love hunting whitetails. With my current career, I have next to no vacation time, so even if I had all the money in the world, I couldn't get away, even if I wanted to. Lawyers just never take time off (until they make partner). LOL So I break everything down into "days per dollar." I was lucky enough to be able to split a nice piece of hunting land with a few homeboys... My share of the annual mortgage fits easily into my budget, and I always have a place to go. The land is conveniently situated next to thousands of acres of public land, and even some nice private land that I've gained access to. Now, instead of blowing my load on 7 days of glory, I can turn my $2000 annual budget into an endless supply of acreage in big buck country that's just an hour from my front door. Within a few years, we'll probably prop up a little shack, and I'll have a home-away-from-home that's always open and available. When you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, my meager monthly payment guarantees me 40-50 days afield in an area code that's proven to produce world class whitetails. I guess it just comes down to your vacation time and what you're looking for. If you're a guy who can regularly get "chunks" of 7-14 days off, and you get off on travel and adventure, save your money and travel. Alternatively, if you're a bonafide weekend warrior, operating on a tight budget, and you want to be able to build yourself a scenario where you can spend a half-day or two every weekend afield out of your limited funds, find some guys and put together a hunting camp within a reasonable drive. Spend your weekends trying to get on big deer, and leave the travel and exotic adventure to the Huck's of the world. Buying 100 acres doesn't mean that you're married to just that 100 acres for the rest of eternity. 100 acres in the right place can translate into literally thousands of huntable acres, if you pick the right spot. It literally opens up a whole new map. Be smart and stake your claim near some public land, or near some land where you've already gained access. If you're fortunate enough to do both, then do both! I know I would if I could . . . and sometime in the future, once my finances are situated, I will travel more . . . but for now, I'm happy as a clam using my garage as my basecamp and running amuk in Ohio chasing big deer. That's my view from the cheap seats.
Maybe not impossible, Will.....but being the selling agent (listing) and the buyer's agent on the same piece of land would seem to be a longshot. Then again, a chunk of property that size could also be listed as commercial property. The agents' fees for commercial property are, in some cases, double (residential fees). I'm getting my license......just because. You never know. And, it's a $400 fee for NC. I run across foreclosure properties all the time. Some are good buys (in my opinion). When the right one comes along, I'll be ready. That's solid advice.
Fran, Do not confuse me with a rich guy who has all the time in the world. I am not that guy. Excluding my funding from doing side work (teacher, draftsman, and home repairs, etc.), my annual hunting budget is similar to yours. I add approx. $3000-$4500 to the budget with my additional side jobs. I limit myself to three weeks (can take up to six but never do) of vacation per year-one is spent exclusively with my family. I make good use of holidays and weekends...I rarely hunt during the week. Let me recount my 2010 season and the expenses involved: Yak...Porter, Nebraska (2-1/2 hours drive from my house). $500 since I split the meat and other costs with a friend. Feral hog hunt with Dubbs and Ms_Jessica in Oklahoma...$200. I cashed in air miles for the round trip plane flight. Three turkey tags in S. Dakota...$185. 12 hour drive (round trip twice. I split the gas with two other people...$125 Africa with my daughter...$2800 for air fare spread over two years. No expense for the animals my daughter and I shot- a gift from our host since I helped supply him with 27 fellow hunters over the year. I tipped the camp staff $300 An antelope tag in Wyoming costs $285 + $30 for an archery stamp. This hunt is two hours from my house. My guests from New Zealand and Australia refused to let me pay for fuel. Colorado mule deer and elk tags...$75. Again, fuel costs were shared. A Nebraska deer tag (a buck and doe) is just under $200. This hunt is three hours from my house. Fuel...$60 S. Dakota whitetail tags...$210 for a buck and doe. Travel expenses were again shared...maybe $200 total. Illinois whitetail...$450. Hunted with a dear friend. I found a cheap flight to Springfield for $134 roundtrip. Alberta whitetail/moose/wolf...$500. Hunted with another dear friend. I found a cheap flight to Edmonton for $150 roundtrip. New Mexico desert mule deer...$385 + $200 in gas (did this hunt solo) Total expenses...$5500 ( not a single guide was used) I'm spending $1000 to have the Illinois and Alberta deer mounted...everything else I euro mounted myself. I'll make the $1000 up working a little harder (I generally turn work away to spend time with my family. I'll select drafting jobs I can do while the family is sleeping). I have lived by the moto, "Where there's a Will, there is a way". If you want it bad enough, it is attainable.
That list of events sounds so much more appealing to me than whitetail hunting from a treestand all year long. One day maybe. Until then, let's hit up New Zealand Will! haha
