If Pope and Young standards were lower....

I hear a lot of folks saying "I hold out for Pope and Young bucks" or, "I hold out for 130 class bucks", or "I killed a Pope and Young buck". If the Pope and Young minimum score had always been set at 110-115, do you think guys that currently "only shoot 130 class or above bucks" would be shooting 115 inch bucks based on the hype of killing the elusive "pope and young quality" buck? Does one really believe that a 130 class buck is a "trophy" buck because killing a 130 inch buck is difficult, or does one believe killing a 130 inch buck is a trophy because that number is linked to Pope and Young standards?

Thoughts?

 

I think that is the standard because those bucks are not as common and takes certain factors for them to reach even 125". If it were lower then I would believe a 115" buck would be less common. I try to stay at the 125" or better but it's tough when you want to put your hand on some antlers and a 90" buck is the best you see.

 

i don't think any of the hunters that have already achieved the 130+ mark would ever shoot smaller racks if P&Y lower their standards. i also think that there is a general movement twards not only harvesting bigger racked deer but more "mature" deer. being a meat hunter, a big rack is always nice bonus. however, if i have the option between a buck i know is 4.5 or older and a 1.5-2.5 year old with a larger rack, i'll shoot the old guy

 

Hunterace--pretend I shined that "men in black" pen on your eyes and your forgot the current P&Y standards. Pretend they were always set at 115. Do you think that people would have naturally lowered their standards to conform to the Pope and Young standards, or do you think they would have continued to try and kill 130 class bucks because there is something real about them representing a "trophy" type buck?

 

ok i'm now brain dead( more than i already was) ..... yes i think that 115 would then be considered great deer and the 130/140 would be monsters, and everything above that would still be freaks

 

I don't know enough on the history of the Pope and Young club to accurately make an educated opinion on the topic.

However.. I don't think it would make guys shooting 130" or above go lower.

Getting a book buck is one thing.. but ending an ENTIRE season over something you won't be happy with is something I don't see many doing.

I think a 125" whitetail represents a fair number of both.. regions where a hunter hunts.. as well as a permissible age class to keep a healthy herd up...

Go smaller and you risk more 2 yr old whitetail being harvested.

Go bigger and you risk loosing the interest of certain regions of any state.. or an entire state.. and many hunters.

Now.. with all this being said.

While I understand many hunters hold out for 130's.. those same hunters will likely begin to hold out for bigger deer as they progress through the seasons. I know I do.

And while some of us believe a 130" is a great animal.. their are many hunters who hold out for 140's... and many who hold out for 150 or above.

Lowering the standards will not make a difference to the gentlemen who do in fact hunt for themselves.

 

duke makes a really good point, i think everyone of us is out there each season trying to at least equal or better our previous years harvests. so if a hunter has taken a couple 125 class deer, mabey now that is the absolute bottom for him now, when 3 years ago it was exactly what he was wishing for

 

We have set standards for our group not because of Pope and Young standards but because we want to manage the properties. In my area a good mature buck will usually measure in the 120-130 and higher. We have used the 120 inch rule the last few years and it has made a big difference in the quality of deer we see. I know in my case it has nothing to do with P&Y, it is more about long term quality of deer in our woods.

 

I like Duke's answer.

I honestly shot a deer I was not happy with at John's place this year, which meant I had to hunt my ASS off after that to get a deer I wanted to drop the string on because I really wanted to put one on the wall this year. My last one will accomplish that, thankfully.

Did the P&Y mark set an arbitrary standard that I've adopted as my own in that pursuit? Probably. I can ALMOST guarantee you I'll never make the mistake I did at John's again... I just don't want to shoot any more bucks in the 115 - 120ish range any more.

But giving credence to your question, I think that's more of a function of what's available in my area, as I have friends who come in and talk with others who would literally give an eye tooth to shoot a 118ish deer year in and year out -- irrespective of what it takes to be a "book buck."

 

Thanks for your opinions gentlemen. I can see where many of you are coming from with your answers. Thanks.

 

Agreed.........although VERY subjective, kinda like deer herd analysis..........guys from the same county will tell you there are too many deer or not enough and both could certainly be true. A 125" buck in many places is an absolute dream monster while in other places guys let them walk because they see a few every week. Kill a 125" in Kansas and no one bats an eye.........you may even get a few frowns..........same buck around here and you would have people mobbing your truck just trying to get a picture of it.

Certainly a "standard" that translates very poory.

That's strange because you have killed some really big bucks in the past and many people stand by the logic that if you put a skilled big buck killer anywhere he will get the job done.

Weird.

Do you attribute this to a rapid decline in your hunting skills and ability??

 

I get where your coming from atlas and I will say in my opinion it most certainly matters where you hunt or should I say the land you have to hunt. I still hope to have a big one on the wall ocassionally even where I hunt now, but that will also depend on the neighbors and the public land that is on both sides of me with hunters dropping deer. I passed a handful of small bucks this year and both years I have been without my honey hole my season could have ended opening day with young bucks. I am after the largest buck I know is in the area and he's a 110-115 inch 10 pointer.
It is getting tougher to pass up deer because activity around me has been minimal and strickly at night. I have waterfowl hunters banging close to me from sunrise to sunset.

But I have 30 more days and I will be out every weekend day trying to get it done. The colder the better because it is more of a chance I have the woods to myself.

 

The P&Y thresh hold has never affected what I shoot. If it was lower or higher I'd still shoot the same size deer.

 

I personally don't know what the P&Y minimum is here. I would still be looking for a buck that "does" it for me.

 

Atlas my man, you do make me laugh!

 

125" anywhere to make It In the books If that's what your wondering with your 1st statement. Maybe I misunderstood your post too.

 

I never judge till the shot presents itself. I Havnt killed any huge boys, but the deer i kiled last your in this "Big buck behind every tree" state of Ohio, where we apparently have the unfair advantage of good genetics and tonnes of deer, was still mobbed and swarmed to take pictures of.
Go figure. Sometimes a trophy is a trophy, I would say that is part of a rapidly increasing respect for the game

 

Good question, Schultzy. I think Duke has some good thoughts, but then again, hunting is personal (or should be), and I think many people set their own standards according to what they deem possible while still maintaining the "challenge." For me, that meant a buck of 80" or more this year. I happened to be fortunate enough to go well above that, and now that my best buck is a 117", I can't honestly say I will be holding out for something larger next year. To me, if it's a buck I'm going to be HAPPY with, I'm shooting. If I'm ever fortunate enough to take a P&Y deer, that's great, but it certainly isn't going to be my driving motivation.

 

I'm curious to know what the "std" would have been..............or would BE........if Mr.'s Pope and Young had resided in FL and SC?

My state bowhunter's assoc. recognizes (for its' "book") any whitetail buck that GROSSES 100".

 

Who knows, hell in Northen MI a 100'' buck is a beast now. Northen MI a few years ago was a differnet place


The above are Northern MI deer, there were less DPSM and older bucks. MI's CBM is 100''