Hello gents -- Well, here I am exactly 30 days before season starts. I had been feeling pretty good about things. I was dialed in at 20 yds, and 30 yds and had been getting in some decent tree stand practice. I am planning on going out this weekend to dial in at 40 yards, my backyard isn't big enough. I decided tonight to give a free tries with my practice broadhead since I have been using field tips so far. I only have one practice broadhead. On the first try -- three things happen all at once 1. The rubber tube on my peep site breaks. I have a little twist in my string so the peep turns about 45 degrees. 2. The practice broadhead goes waaaaay to the left. 3. My left-right site shifts. I have had issues with my site shifting before. I don't understand it. I will be all dialed in, then all of a sudden start hitting to the left. I know the site is shifting becuase I can see it on the has marks. It always feels super tight, and I have put loc tite on the threads. I don't understnad how or why this is happening. As for the broadhead flying left. Even after I adjusted my left-right back to center and tested it with field tips, I am still getting random drifts with the practice broadhead. At 20 yards, its actually fairly accurae but when i move to 30, its off my 6 inches or more at times, then other times it will be dead on. I have read up on paper tuning, but don't really have a set up for that. A couple times, watching the arrow leave the bow, I really tried to watch it, and I am not sure it is spinning. So, where do I start with this?
1. Tubeless peep sight 2. Broadhead tune your bow 3. Are you sure the sight is "shifting" or are you just being inconsistent? If it's the sight, fix that crap or buy a new one. Good luck! http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf
1. I had the same problem with my peep always twisting on me so i got a tube put on and even the bow shop said its a good idea to change it every year. Even one little nick from a briar or anything can puncture it and break on pull back. Just be happy it was target shooting and not ol mossy oak ghost horns lol 2. If it was me i would invest in some different broadheads that you will have confidence in taking to the field. 3. Simple! New sights on the shopping list. When i bought my bow it came with a set of cheap 3 pin Tru Glo's from Wal Mart and they havent failed me yet! Always a nice thing saving money for more tags! Hope you can figure everything out! Jordan
1. Hows your string look? How old is it? If its 2 yers old or older you may want to go ahead and replace it. When you do have a G5 Meta Peep installed after you shoot in the string. Peep rotation solved. 2.&3. Are you 100% sure it is your sight? Unless your mount is broke, I highly doubt this is happening. After reading The description of what is happening I noticed you describing something I was experiencing when I first started shooting. "Torquing" the bow. I had a problem with being consistent because I would do this. It wouldn't happen every shot and I would adjust my sight every time I turned around. It was the biggest pain in the A** I have had so far. I fixed this by shooting with an open grip. When you draw back the bow, open your bow hand and keep it that way. When you release the arrow, your natural reflexes will keep you from dropping your bow so don't worry about dropping it. Try this next time you shoot and see if it is your sight. If this doesn't fix it then buy a new sight and try it. It just sounds like what I was doing and what I have heard many others do. Let us know what happens.
Gents -- Gents, thanks, and here is some more info. This bow is pretty new, I got it in March, but I have put thousands of arrows through it. I really enjoy being able to shoot in my backyard, I find it to be stress reliever and I am in a high stress job. So, I have shot it a bunch. Plus, since I don't know what I am doing, its taking me lots of practice. I don't believe the site shifting is due to me being inconsistent. A few months back, I posted some videos on here regarding my form and got some great feedback. So, I think I am now very consistent. Plus, I can tell from the hash marks on the site that it is moving. I have tried to torque it down pretty far, and put Loc Tite on the threads. When I try and move it with my hands, it won't budge, but somehow it is. I think I may have boiled that down to when I adjust my up/down site, I think I may be somehow putting undue pressure on the left/right. I will watch it. I think the site is a Tru Glo. It came with the bow. I am attaching a pic. Tube on the peep. I went out today and bought some new tubing. I took off the old, added about 1.5 in to what the old one was (it had broken a couple times), and put it back on, and turned the peep so it wasn't twisted. I am also attaching a pic of my site and the string. I don't know if it needs replaced, and like I said its fairly new but been shot a lot. I will possibly go tubeless, but don't have a good store close to me. Broadhead - this one is still weird to me, and there is another factor that I think might be playing in. I originally started out with Bass Pro's House Brand of arrows, Carbon Fury 6075. I had shot those up, so picked up some Gold Tip White Tail Hunters, 5575. I had shortened my draw legnth so the the guy cut them about 1/2 shorter. Ever since I got these, my groups seem to have lost some of their tightness. When I put the practice broadhead on the Gold Tips, I am way off. When I put the practice broadhead on the Carbon Fury, I am still off, but by a lesser amount. I guess I had been under the impression that as long as I was using the same grain field and broadhead, my variance would be very slight. My broadheads are Muzzy 4 blade. Not sure if any of this offers any additional explanation or solutions.
The broadhead problem is a spine issue, if they're hitting left for a right shooter it should indicate a stiff arrow, the options are to increase draw weight, increase tip weight, increase arrow length. I just got through this, it takes time but you'll get it. As for the sight, I had the same problem with a truglo sight, it would be good then move fairly suddenly. I believe its from vibration on the shot. I changed sights but glue or something soft where it clamps may solve the problem. Good luck. Looks like your string could use a little wax, the peep is fine, the tubes just rob a little speed which is why many go tubeless these days
Yeah, takingn up archery has been interesting education for me. I'm still not sure I totally understand arrow issues yet. Anyways, I've been doing some self education tonight. Found this video on Youtube, and it seems to correspond with some other things that I have read as well as a few other vids on Youtube. I am going to give this a try tomorrow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_mBH9lhRw&feature=related I think I am going to switch back to my original weight/length of arrow. Not sure if I will get Carbon Furys again or something else. I prefer to shop at Bass Pro, but I am about 2 hours away. I have a Gander Mountain about 45 mins from me, but have been less than impressed with their archery expertise. One thing I don't get just yet it this. I have read a few places, and seen in the video, where guys talk about lining up their broadheads with their fletching. But, my broadheads are 4 blade, so I don't yet understand how to line that up with a 3 vane arrow.
Pretty good video, that adjustment will work only if your arrow is the proper spine so if your going to get arrows make sure they're correct. As for indexing you broadhead and fletching, some still believe it but its pretty much a myth, a bow cant sent an arrow downrange fast enough to cause any problems. I'd try playing with weights before spending more money on arrows, you might be real close.
Sounds like you need a good re-tune on the bow. Have the bow re-spec'd and paper tuned. Looks like you may be shooting a Bowtech Tomkat? Thos eare notorious for being extremely easy to torque. I would remove that rubber grip and shoot off the riser. Purebowhunting, how can you say it's a spine issue? We don't even know what he is shooting.
Don't know for sure, but if hes adjusted everything and still cant get the broadhead to join his field tips its often the problem. Just trying to give some options before buying new gear.
Gents - Tried the tips in that video this morning. I was using the original arrows, the Carbon Fury 6075s. As best as I can tell, it moved the broadhead towards center point as planned, but also moved the field tips a corresponding amount off center. This was by moving the rest. This bow is technically a Red Head Kronik, but believe it is the same as the Bow Tech Tomkat, just with Bass Pro's private label on it. I might try this again later with the Gold Tips just to see what impact things have. More info I should have added earlier. I am shooting roughly 65lbs draw at 28 inches. The Carbon Furys are cut to 29.5 and the Gold Tips are cut at 29. My field tips are 100gr and the broadhead I am using is a practice broadhead, but is a Muzzy 4 blade, 100gr. If I don't see something different happening later today with the Gold Tips, I may see about trying to make a run to BP this week. I don't really have the means to do any paper tuning. The best source I have in under 45 mins from my house for gear is the Wal Mart and a hardware store. I noticed Wal Mart had some arrows in varying weights/lengths that can be bought as singles. I was contemplating picking up a couple in the 29in length just to see the variance. Since I am a newbie and don't have close proximity to a pro shop, this board and trial and error trying to isolate one variable at a time have kind of been my method.
In guessing your bow maxes out at 70 lbs? I would try increasing your weight before shoping for new arrows. How far to the left are you broadhead hitting from your field tips? Also in the video he talked about moving the rest in one line intervals, I'd recommend much smaller intervals, like 1/32 at a time.
Yes, the bow maxes at 70lbs. Using the Carbon Fury arrows, the broadhead is about 4 inches high and 4 left of center. Moving the rest, I am about center now on the broadheads, but my field tips have dropped and moved right a corresponding amount. So, now they are 4 low and 4 right.
Just to make sure, your broadheads and your field points are the same weight right? Not trying to be a smarta**, but I've grabbed the wrong things off a shelf on accident. Also, the means for paper tuning are pretty simple. You really only need a cardboard box, some duct tape, and paper. I took a milk crate, cut out the bottom and put the paper across the front. Can't get much cheaper than that, and it's very effective. I would look at your spine / tip weight and then try everything you can in that easton tuning guide.
I hate to put my two-cents being a newbie and all but I have been hanging around my local pro-shop talking with experienced shooters and the one thing that every one of them told me was to limit my practice shots during each session, take 12 or so shots then rest for awhile and come back if desired. The thought being that after too many shots you get tired and start messing up the simple things that lead to inconsistencies. From what I have read so far "thousands of arrows since march" and constant tweaking every day I wonder are you just getting tired and that is causing your shots to be errant. I shoot about 12-16 a day after work and sometimes by number 16 I can feel form failing and I over compensate. I also agree with the open grip, I put a wrist sling on for added confidence and torque has gone away (except when I get tired). Again I have only been shooting a short time too but am accepting of the fact that my errant shots are more likely due to software than hardware.
For what it's worth, I saw a thread recently about which broadheads are hardest to tune. I'm not sure if it was here or AT. Anyways, the broadhead that seemed to have the most people claiming hardest to tune....you guessed it.....Muzzy MX heads. Maybe you might try a friend's different brand broadhead and compare to your Muzzys. This won't solve the problem you have but it make make it easier getting tuned. I believe your arrow is too stiff. The only way to solve this is to raise the weight of the bow or shoot a heavier tip. If you get new arrows of the same brand and spine, they need to be longer to weaken the spine a bit. I'm not sure if you understand this. The longer an arrow is the more flexible it is/ the less spine it has. Also, if you add more wieght to the tip this too will make the arrow flex more when the string is released. Your arrows being too stiff will cause problems getting broadheads to tune. I had this same issue except the opposite. My arrows were not spined heavy enough. I switched from a 100 gr. broad head to a 75 gr broadhead and now my 75gr field tips and broadheads hit together. Before that with 100 gr tips, my broadheads were hitting about 4 inches to the right of my field tips. I tried adjusting the rest but couldn't get it anywhere. I suspected my arrows were too weakly spined. Shooting lighter tips solved it with my weaker spined arrows.
Gents - Thanks again for the advice. Here are some comments, and my next steps. I don't think I am torquing or practicing too much. I think I mentioned, a few months back, I got some great tips on form. I will tend to run groups of 4 or 6 arrows, and repeat about 4 or 5 times, then break. I just sometimes do that a couple times a day. When I see drift from fatigue, I stop. Also, I will occaisonally torque, but tend to tell when I do that. I have a sling and try to go with a pretty loose grip. With the broadheads, I wouldn't run as full of groups. I'd run a couple shots with field tips, then the broadhead. I am finally understanding the spine issue. Seems like it makes sense here since my slightly longer arrows are performing better than the shorter Gold Tips. I had read up on arrows and spines a few times, but it took me a while to put the pieces together. The couple of posts here finally shed light on it for me. My plan is this - tomorrow, I am going to head to Bass Pro, where I got the bow, with a few goals in mind. - I am going to see if they will warranty the site - See if they can help with an overall tuning including paper tune on their range - See if I can try some different arrow lengths for variance - Have them double check the poundage and likely increase it. I would take that on myself, but would prefer for someone to show me the first time out. I have read the Easton guide a couple of times, and honestly didn't 'get it' on the first read. The second time through, I understood it better. My thinking is that if I can get Bass Pro to help me with some of the tuning that I am not set up for, I can handle some of the other, particularly broad head tuning on my own.
Well, I hope this doesn't become my saga that never ends. I went into Bass Pro today, and I have long been a big fan of my Bass Pro store, but not sure after today. They had functionally one guy working in archery and at least 4 or 5 customers waiting at any time, so they guy had to keep starting and stopping on helping me. He squared up my bow, said everything looked fine. We did a paper tune on both types of arrows, and for the most part that pretty much looked good also. I thought my bow was around 65 lbs, but it was actually 60, so I had them go ahead and take it to 67 for me. The dismaying part was when I wanted to talk about arrows and spines. At the point, another guy showed up early, so he was in the range with us. They both then insisted that, no matter how much you tune your bow and no matter how much you tune your broadheads, you will never get the same point of impact with broad heads as field points. They insisted it was impossible, and found the idea slightly humorous. Now, granted, I am no expert, but based on my reading, several videos watched, and lots of questions asked that this is contrary to my thinking -- unless of course I am just way off track. I do realize that lots of people believe that you will always have to move your sights with broadheads. So, maybe I am just completly off track. These guys told me that "all their archery reps" tell them the same thing. Just cause I am stubborn this way, I actually emailed a dozen or so suppliers tonight - Bear, PSE, Bow Tech, Carbon Express, Muzzy, Slick Trick - and asked them the question. Like I said, I have always been an advocate of Bass Pro. In addition to my bow, I have bought pretty much everything from there - trolling motors, rifles, misc hunting and fishing supplies, and always felt like the knowledge was spot on. The way I figure, if these guys are blatantly wrong about this fact, then it kind of puts any other question I may have into doubt. Sure, they might be giving correct advice 90% of the time, but how do I know which 10% is wrong? Anyways, I had intended to get some new arrows, but we never got to the spine conversation. Their position was that if my broadheads were consistently off, then everything is fine and I should just move my sights. So, I only walked out today with a new, tubeless peep. I got home to late to see if the increased draw weight made a difference. You guys let me know what you think about the advice I got today.
I haven't even read through the whole thread... just the last few posts' worth. Can't get the same POI with field pionts and broadheads?! Horse puckey!!! I do it on every bow I set up, and I've went through about 30 personal bows over the last six or seven years as a member of BowTech's Corporate Advisory Staff... I've helped set up countless friends' bows as my personal shop is better-equipped than most archery stores around the area. I've shot dozens upon dozens of Muzzy MX-3s that hit EXACTLY where my field points do... all the way out to 60 yards. People that tell you that you can't tune a bow to produce the same POI between the two are either lazy or ignorant, or perhaps both. And you can print that out and take it to your local Bass Pro Shops so those nincompoops can read it.
