I need your opinion on two questions

I was sitting in a turkey blind on Saturday wishing I had my old PSE turkey rig -a 60lb Stingray turned down to 54 lbs. This bow, combined with a slower heavier "Line Jammer" arrow, was the perfect ticket for hunting gobblers from a ground blind. Last fall I gave the bow to a needy young up and comer from South Dakota, and I haven't gotten around to replace it. As I was sitting there with my 74lb X-Force Super Short in hand, I was thinking, "I'm going to blow an arrow right through any bird I'm fortunate enough to shoot." This is something I would rather not do. In the past, I have recovered more birds when their escape/flight was hindered by a protruding arrow. So question one is, "On turkeys, would you rather have your arrow pass through or remain in the bird"? If you're a head shooter, you need not respond.

My anwer is: I would rather have my arrow hinder flight/escape. If I hit the twelve ring, the bird is dead either way.Understandably, this doesn't always happen.

Question number two has to do with a broadhead I've been sent to field test. It's the Smokin Ramcat (here's a link: http://www.bowhunting.com/shopping/Products/RAMCAT-100gr-BROADHEADS__91753.aspx). This broadhead has "back cut" technology- a feature I like. But, in order for this designed technology to work, the arrow must remain in the target, right? I can see how this could be advantageous when hunting things like Duikers or Steenbok in Africa. The application would also be perfect for smaller size animals like bobcats, fox, and coyotes here in the States-maybe even deer. Now to ask question number two. If you could get your arrow to stop/remain half way thru an animal (tip pokes big holes through both sides ), would you want this? Pros and cons please....

 

I am 0 for 1 on recovering turkeys I hit. Given my track record, I would MUCH rather the arrow stick in the bird next time. In fact, I have a Mission Menace bow I will be outfitting for turkey hunting next spring as a 50 lb bow.

I use Rage 2 blades with a stopper point behind it to prohibit penetration.

 

Arrow stuck in the bird. No question about it.

 

I use a Steelforce Talon which is cut to do massive damage and limit penetration. I shoot at 60# and love this set-up. I don't care what anyone says I have killed my share of birds with a bow and lost some to. Every bird lost was when I completely passed through with regular broadheads. Keep it in them. A turkey is not like a deer when it comes to trailing especially in the river bottoms I hunt!

 

I am new to bow hunting but I would agree on the first that the arrow in the bird would be good.
As far as the second, I know when I rifle hunt I would rather have a bullet pass all the way through so as to make two holes. Kinda like a vent cap on a gas can with two opening air in liquid out faster They will bleed out and go down faster if you have to track them.

Just my opinion!
Kinda like A**ho*es
All have one. you know the rest

 

Trev, picture please? What is a stopper point?

Mad, if the broadhead punches both sides, then blood will flow out both sides. Most broadhead requirements are "at least two 7/8 inch dia." cutting edges. A carbon arrow is only .30" in diameter. The arrow should not prevent blood from flowing if the blades did their job. If the arrow is hindering movement and continues to cut if pulled back through, then is this a bad thing?

 

True point, I did not think about that way. Just thinking two holes and stopped thinking there.

 

I'm with you, I would love to have the arrow sticking out but have always had pass thrus. Sometimes they fall and other times they will fly, crawl, off. The key to success with me has been to get another arrow in them from the blind if possible or as soon as the bird starts to leave, get out of the blind and chase that sucker down until he is in your hands. Warning, you will eventually have to have hand to spur combat with a Tom but that just adds to the fun to me. My opening day Tom I used a stryker but for my second Tom (if I get one) I am going to try the rage head. Though I personally don't think it's the right head for deer I think for turkey it might be the perfect head.

 

Hand to spur combat...Now that's a great way to put it!!! Been there, done that. I know exactly what you mean. Your also right about getting that other arrow in them or running them down. It's a touchy situation, sometimes they will crawl and stop, but if they take off I do what ever I can to keep them in site.

 

as you all know i use the old pse spyder for everything deer turkey hell even coon hunting its at 50# and its a good light wieght bow with amazingly good penetration for the size of arrows i shoot 2117's with a 100 grain magnus stinger slower but tighter and more accurate. go light poundage in all situations unless your are shooting an elephant or hippo or something crazy like that it'll plug mr.tom and hell be jumping around not flying or running

 

Will try to leave the arrow in them. I use a 2 blade rage with a stopper type thingey behind it. You know thise washer things you put behind feild points for small game. Something like that just not as big.

 

TJ,

What do you think of the Ramcats? I am intrigued by the "back cut" technology. I'd like to know if it actually works. Again, it wouldn't be possible with a complete pass through. I think it would be cool if an archer had limited control of his shaft once it left the bow. I am essentially saying, "once shot, the archer could apply the brakes and stop the arrow exactly at the depth he desires". And this could be accomplished regardless of the bow's draw weight (not everyone can afford multiple bow setups, and the premise behind this is both small cars and large trucks have the same/similar braking systems). Last year, for example, I smashed a yote a tad back. The slick furred song dog ducked into a dense stand of cattails and exited out the other side only to disappear onto private property. Unfortunately, I could not continue my pursuit. If the arrow would have remained in him, I doubt he would have made it through the tighly woven cattails. My guess, I would have found him closer and could have made a second follow up shot-providing he wasn't already dead.

I understand "pass thru" is the conventional way of thinking, but are there examples in your hunting career (beyond turkeys, small game) where you wish you could have applied the brakes to your arrow to aid recovery? If you could pull your arrow back through and deliver that many more cuts, would you employ such technology? Does such a tool have a time and a place?

 

Likewise here, I arrowed a big gobbler last fall, but never did find him as he made it into standing corn. I looked for a couple hours, but they don't BLEED like a deer does. I'd heard guys say you wanted penetration on them, so he got a 445gr arrow moving around 280fps.......blew right through no doubt, but I never saw him again once he was in that corn.

 

In the experiences I've had with pass throughs vs not passing through I'll take the pass through any day on a well placed arrow In the vitals. On good lung hits I've saw where blood was scarce being the arrow didn't pass through and all of a sudden there lays the arrow and the blood trail opens up from that point on. The only time I could see the arrow staying In the animal being a good thing Is a marginal or not so good shot. The more It gets banged around the better then.

What I said here Is In reference to big game animals, not turkeys.

 

Stopper points/adder points are just a point that you screw on behind your broadhead. It creates more contact as the arrow penetrates, and slows down arrow movement as it passes through. I've heard that just using a plain old washer can be just as effective as an adder point. Here is a picture for reference.







I, like many others would prefer that my arrow stay in the bird.

 

Thanks Brandon, I have never seen those before-that helps.

 

I have also heard of guys tying on or gluing on a treble hook, with one of the barbs cut off, just behind the broadhead to stop a pass thru.

 

I'm not a turkey hunter or do I proclaim to be... but I'm sitting here at my computer looking up at six fan tails of turkeys on my wall who were unfortunately wandered too close by my stands as I was deer hunting and fell prey to my 67-lb bows... Taken by a variety of heads, ranging from my old Rocket Aerohead days, to NAP spitfires, to Muzzy MX-3s.

All were pass-throughs.

 

I hear ya Greg, I have those six fan tails as well. But I also have had three past experiences where I sent arrows straight through and wish I hadn't. Those three birds were not recovered. I truly feel I could have found the birds if I could have in some way hindered their ability to fly and run (two flew away and one ran away). Those three experiences combined with the coyote, and a host of others, has me re-thinking tactics. I agree though, if you hit em where you're supposed to, they don't go far-most of the time. I guess I'm looking for a better anchor than just hitting things spot on (I have a lot invested since most of my turkey hunts, for example, are out of state). Let's face it, getting out of a ground blind with any speed is becoming more difficult as we age. At times, that seems to be the pressing task (without wetting our pants) and running down a wounded turkey is secondary.

 

Reading your response called from memory something I read in one of the various magazines I've subscribed to... One author at least touted the benefits of NOT chasing them down immediately as we would a gun-shot turkey? Rather, he advocated letting them go off a bit and lay down and die, giving us a chance to track them much like a whitetail and not push them into hiding...

Just a thought. Like I alluded to, I am NOT a turkey hunter.