Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when you have a set up that gets through both shoulders, a single bevel with high FOC/heavier up front gets it done more than not correct? The Dr Ashby reports suggest that I believe.
I’ve done it a number of times. Not total pass throughs every time but have had entrance and exit holes each time I did it. Last time I did it with a 425ish grain arrow and a 2 blade NAP Killzone out of a 62lb bow. I don’t think any broadhead is going to consistently perform well if it’s centers that thick ridge that runs through the middle of the scapula but it doesn’t take much to get through one side and into the vitals.
do you one better-busted through both humerus at 50 yards with a Muzzy HBX, 440gr TAW out of a 67# Mission Ballistic. Big-bodied 2.5 year old. took a big chunk out of the nearside without breaking it in half, then got heart and punched through the offside leg, then when he took off the shaft snapped inside him. I feel I always need to make this point- I thought he was 40. It was really foggy and I spot and stalked him through CRP. He was perfectly broadside, completely in the open and not alarmed when I took the shot. I was going to miss him close a foot low when he seen the Nockturnal coming at him in the fog and ducked right into it. Complete luck.
I will also say this - I have now shot I think four deer with the muzzy hbx and all of them have hit at least a rib if not humerus or scapula and even a spine. Not one of them have broke. Mostof them have bent the blades a little bit but none have broke. They are VERY tough mech heads. Everyone was rebuildable just replace the blades
I've killed three deer that went through both shoulder blades. I didn't think it was a big enough deal to take pics of it but it was impressive. None of them were clean pass throughs but all of them the arrow went through both sides and hung in the deer. They all broke the arrow shaft when they kicked. Two went about 50 yards and one went 150 yards. Shooting the setup in my sig below. The hellrazors were fine but did need sharpened. One did go through one of the heavy T sections. Two of them were the first year I bought that bow. It was set at 75#dw where it still sits. The others I've all hit just behind in the crease of their leg and they've all blown through like a hot needle through warm butter. They all sounded like a 2x4 breaking in half quickly under a heavy load.
While I understand the Ashby BS, I think it is over blown for many ... not all can shoot heavy poundage, or shoot stupidly heavy arrows with a huge amount of FOC, but yet, they still kill some big North American Game with compounds .... Ive got around 90 bow killed deer and many were bucks 180lbs to over 200 lbs, several big hogs and have NEVER lost an animal due to lack of penetration and I havnt been over 430 grs in 20+ years, many of those were killed with Steelheads and the XL versions ... Ive been under 65 lbs for about 10 years (now at 61lbs) and almost always get pass thrus or two holes .... I will say at least 70% of the deer killed were with fixed heads, which I always have preferred .... even for Elk/Moose/Bear I'd stay in the 450-475gr range, using a good solid COC at the 61 lbs and keep my FOC between 9-15% ... some over think this waaaay to much ... I'm not chasing Cape Buffalo ....
I have said it before and taken heat but I don't care- I am done avoiding the "shoulder." Arrow exits anywhere in this triangle and it's a dead damn deer.
I shot a mature doe a few year back, I heard a thud and saw my arrow sticking out of her as she ran off. I recovered the deer with my arrow still sticking out of her. My arrow went right through the front shoulder and got lodged in the opposite shoulder, slicing the heart in between. No exit hole but She only went about 50 yards, 100 grain G5 Montec and Beman ICS arrow
That is what the science would suggest. I am hoping to have a chance to test theory in a couple of weeks.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but, based upon this statement, I am guessing you have not hunted these three species. I have hunted all three, I might be willing to chase black bears with a 450-475 grain arrow, but not grizzlies, or elk or moose. Having hunted both elk and moose twice with arrows under 500 grains, I will never do it again. Size-wise, these species are not much different than the cape buffalo. I have had enough bad hits on deer with 450-475 grain arrows that I would never take on bigger animals that way. Looking back on those hunts, I am glad I never launched an arrow. I think it would have been an expensive heartbreak memory rather than a challenging hunt memory if I had.
So when these guys hunt grizzly, elk and moose I assume some or a lot are using 60# bows are even lighter. What weight arrows are they generally using? fixed heads or mech?
Not sure for all of them. I believe all the Born and Raised Guys are 550+, last I heard Cam Hanes talk about it he was around 580. The Hunting Public guys are all 550+. I am basing this off of videos and podcasts where I have heard it mentioned. A buddy I know killed his second elk with a bow last week. He is at 560. Is it necessary to go 700+ for North American game? I don't know. I have not tried that. I do know that I am trying three different arrow set ups this year (in my signature) all are heavier than arrows than 475 grain arrows I shot last year. Why am trying heavier arrows? Because even at 475 grains and using fixed heads, twice I have failed to achieve pass through on small southern white tail deer. I want a pass through when I shoot an animal, two holes, twice the blood loss, easier tracking. The science seems pretty compelling that heavier arrows lead to pass through.
"Couldnt get a pass thru on southern deer with a 475 gr arrow" ........... ROFLMAO !! ........ something there is seriously F'd and it aint the arrow weight ....
I increased my arrow weight this year, went from a 460gr total weight with broadhead up to 570gr. My compound and recurve are both way more quite than they have been in the past couple of years and if that is the only benefit, I'm good with it. But it's not.. With my recurve I was always hitting a little higher than I was aiming and now I'm ten ringing that hooker like a pimp at 25yrds with a 200gr field point. Can't wait to throw on the 200gr Alaskan single bevels. I think it's kinda fun to screw around and get outside of what I've been used to. It's also kind of neat to go out and test a theory of heavier arrow weights, The whole Dr, Ashby thing, instead of just hating on something bc it goes against what one may think to be true.
