How much is acceptable?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by rybo, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. smctitan

    smctitan Die Hard Bowhunter

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    If given the opportunity, I think new bow hunters should do sort of an "apprenticeship" with an experienced hunter. This will allow them to get used to staying still, watch in anticipation as a deer comes past, possibly watch their mentor take a shot, track a deer and watch the gutting process. All of these things add confidence for when it is their turn. Now I do understand that not everybody has this opportunity, but if given the chance, they should take it in a heartbeat. I know I did.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
     
  2. Vendetta

    Vendetta Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I think it has to do with respect for the animal, or lack thereof.
     
  3. Treestandsniper

    Treestandsniper Die Hard Bowhunter

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    This is a serious thread, asking serious questions, so FWIW here’s my two cents. Although fairly new to the sight, it seems that all of the lost deer threads are prefaced by terms like, “sick to my stomach” and “worse day of my life”. This seems to indicate the right attitude regarding the awesome responsibility of hunting deer. Although I’m not particularly religious, many of the folks on this site seem particularly close to God. Many more of us take a knee when we recover a deer and give thanks to God for the opportunity to harvest these splendid creatures.

    The question of ethics and failing to recover a deer is a deeply personal experience, and each of us knows in our heart if we have properly prepared for the hunt and made the right decisions during the moment of truth. Most of us (not all) hunt for pleasure; that is to say not for sustenance. Hell, I could have bought a whole cow for the money I’ve put into this season alone. Our ancestors hunted for sustenance and you can well believe they missed. Sure we have much better equipment, but they missed; even if missing spelled the difference between life and death. The point here (as the fellas in the encouraging camp always say) is to learn for your mistakes. Watch a few wildlife documentaries and you will see that the success rate amongst juvenile predators is abysmal.

    Does experience count: think back to your days a young men when we all thought we were studs and knew all there was to know about sex. What of food, music, politics or a multitude of other subjects where not knowing what we don’t know gave us a false sense of confidence? Experience is the best teacher my friends and we need to support the young hunters who have willingly entered the woods in a quest to reconnect with their primal natures.

    Finally, (and this may not sit well with some) it must be remembered that one our primary defense against the anti-hunting crowd is, population control. Although most of us hold deer in the highest esteem; it is after all just an animal. If God made animals for us to master, surely the practice of mastering deer brings us closer to him. Of course, there is no excuse for failing to prepare for the hunt; and even less for not learning from our mistakes.

    Hunt hard and hunt smart.
     
  4. bowsie15

    bowsie15 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I met a guy hunting 2 years ago in the woods and we have been buddies since I've introduced him to some guys and vice versa. He has told me of one of his buddies bad luck with shooting deer which I didn't really think about much till the 3rd story this guy told me of shooting deer, hitting it, and not being able to find it. So I started to get concerned and ask questions. I asked my buddy does this guy know how to shoot? does he know when to shoot and when not too. The ones that I know of are a10 point he hit high he never found. 2 does same story one was only 9 yards away never found either one. So the story that really got me was we were hunting one afternoon and I don't have doe tags but my buddy and this guy do. I told my buddy to sit in this spot that I knew a group of does would come by at 4:30. To my surprise after the hunt my buddy put this guy where I told him to sit and here we go again. 9 does went in front of him at 4:35, he shot and has no idea if he hit one or not. We look until we can't see anymore which was only about 20 mins and can't find blood or the arrow. So I tell him we should back out til tomorrow. I couldn't be here in the am but he said he went over and spent as long as he could and couldn't find anything. I go over to hunt ht afternoon and find this guys arrow right in a runway off the field he shot him in. I'm BS now n
    because I know he put no effort in. 10 yards later I find the doe ripped to shreds by coyotes. This guy didn't look at all for this deer. I'm happy to say this guy is no longer allowed on his property and can't believe there are guys out there like this. I would never hunt with a guy like this again. If you don't know how to shoot a bow right or know when to shoot and when not to shoot, don't go into the woods. Where does the not knowing stop. " I didn't know you don't shoot at noises in the woods I thought it was a deer"? C'MON
     
  5. joot

    joot Weekend Warrior

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    There are many different levels of hunters out there:

    1. Beginner (0-2 yrs)
    2. Intermediate (2-5 yrs)
    3. Expert, hardcore (5 yrs -beyond)

    The hunting experience of each of the above groups will differ. To say that a beginner (with all their in-experiences) is not allowed in the woods because they are just starting out is a ridiculous statement. How many of you started hunting being 100% proficient already? Now if a hunter who has been hunting for a long long time is still making beginner, rookie mistakes, unethical shots, then they need a talking to. My $0.02.
     
  6. bowsie15

    bowsie15 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    My point exactly the guy I was talking about has been hunting for years!!!!
     
  7. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Slow down, make a solid shot, assess the situation from where you sit, plan out your next move, make your next move, then reassess.....and on and on using the most important part of your hunting gear, your brain.

    If you are the type of person that doesn't listen to the bowhunting "veterans"when they speak in regards to proper shooting angles, tuning your bow, using the proper broadhead given your set-up, and other things relevant to making your shot a deadly one, then please do not cry and whine when you lose a deer. And the word "veteran" could mean a guy who has hunted two years yet has more sense than a bowhunter who has hunted twenty years and does not have the sense God gave a goose.

    On the arrow/bow set-up.....A few years ago I began tinkering with traditional shooting and I remember reading something that said, "you want your arrow to fly perfect even when it is raining and your feathers are rendered useless". What does that mean? You want your arrow to be so perfectly tuned that your arrow will fly straight and true just based on the balance between your bow and arrow combo, even without the steering factor of a feather or vane. That adds big time to arrow penetration and lethality.

    On the mental side of it all. Be patient and slow down mentally even when the action heats up. That will make you a killer in the moment of truth. And remember this...YOU WILL see deer again and you will have another shot, so if you do not have a good shot, do not shoot. Due to the size of my backyard I can only really shoot out to 30 yards. However, I try to limit all of my shots in the woods to 20-25 yards or less because 30 yards to me just seems far to me based on my practice scenarios and due to the terrain I hunt. Heck, the 18 yard shot I took on a doe a few weeks ago felt far!

    Put it all together and you should have the correct mental mindframe before you enter the woods, coupled with an extremely lethal bow/arrow combo that allows for the greatest room for user error.
     
  8. Adam Winters

    Adam Winters Weekend Warrior

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    You are right about adrenaline being different than running around the house and shooting at a living animal is the best experience when you boil it all down. BUT..... would you step in the ring to fight Mike Tyson without training? Your adrenaline will be flowing, and someone will get hurt.
     
  9. DoubleLung

    DoubleLung Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Couldn't agree more! You can practice til your trigger finger falls off, but until you can manage your nerves and emotions when drawing back on a live animal... it's just shooting. We need to learn from every experience good or bad and bashing someone for something that every bowhunter will experience in their hunting career (two types of hunters, those who have lost deer and those who haven't yet) doesn't make much sense to me, as long as you took every effort and precaution to succeed.
     
  10. DoubleLung

    DoubleLung Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Great post... Well said!
     
  11. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I think a lot of newb's have no idea what it "feels" like to draw on a live animal. They've practiced in their yard for so long that it gets ingrained into their head that this is the way it is. Us seasoned guys know all to well how you can become "unraveled" the instant a deer walks into range.

    I tell new comers all the time that one of the best things you can practice is drawing on a live animal with no intention of shooting. I do it all the time. It really helps me. If a deer comes into range and I can get away with it, I will draw on it, put the pin where it needs to be and follow the animal, making mental notes of my form,etc. Getting yourself comfortable with live animals in your sights is half the battle I feel. It is completely different than pounding a foam target, etc.

    Another thing I believe happens a lot is that many aren't taught the correct way to shoot a deer. Shooting "AT" a deer is not the same thing. I doubt many are taught to pick a hair and focus on it the entire way through the shot. I remember in my early days that if I could get the pin on the deers shoulder, I was shooting. I later was taught that its better to pick that tiny little spot to shoot.

    We as bow hunters have many things that must go through our thoughts at the moment of truth. The more things we can take out of that equation and the less we must think about, the better. Simplify everything. Range trees around you instead of deer. Come up with a good mental checklist that you can easily go through in your head at full draw to help you determine if the shot is good or bad. If there is any doubt, don't shoot. Don't try to be a hero and force shots or over extend your range. I can and do practice shots out to 60 yards in my back yard. I can hit an 8" circle all day long at this range. In the woods, my maximum distance is 30 yards. I simply do not like shooting further than this. If I'm hunting open fields, I'll shoot as far as 40, no more.

    Things can and do happen and it IS part of bowhunting. If you have never wounded a deer, then either you haven't hunted long enough or haven't actually taken many shots. You can do everything exactly right, but once that arrow leaves the bow, it really is out of your hands. The difference is that you do everything in your power to minimize the chance for error by not shooting over your effective range, making sure the shot angle is good, executing a good shoot, etc.

    I don't believe there is a such thing as being too confident. There is such a thing as being so confident that you are willing to take risks. Me personally, I believe that every shot I make is going to be perfect. I believe that if I do my part, that deer is dead.
     
  12. Siman/OH

    Siman/OH Legendary Woodsman

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    For statistical purposes, ive lost 4 in 7 seasons of bowhunting.

    With 8 kills.

    8/12 for 66% success recovery on a hit deer.

    Should i be jailed?
     
  13. NEW61375

    NEW61375 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Something that is nearly as important as the 66% success is what you learned from the 34% failure and applying that knowledge in the future and maybe even passing it on to someone else.
     
  14. jackflap

    jackflap Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Not until after the election...Ohio is the key swing State....just in case you didnt know.
     
  15. Oly44

    Oly44 Grizzled Veteran

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    This is a good point and i will remember this next time im in the stand. so thank you.
     
  16. LittleChief

    LittleChief Grizzled Veteran

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    Yes, more than likely, but not because of your deer hunting record. :lol:
     
  17. Afflicted

    Afflicted Grizzled Veteran

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    This is really a fantastic thread.

    Myself being new to not only bow hunting but hunting in general have blood trailed a few animals myself that I never found and all I can say is it's nothing I want to do again. That is why all the advise and different perspective on this topic are really great.

    I now make a conscious effort before I ever draw back on on animal to ask myself "is this my kill or do I need to let them walk for the next guy"? If I'm not 100% I draw down and keep enjoying the hunt.

    Again great thread guys.
     
  18. Afflicted

    Afflicted Grizzled Veteran

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    I've read and plan to do it myself in the future and that is to do an autopsy on every kill you make to help you understand why he went as far as he did and what that arrow actually cut through. Seems like a great idea and wonder if other do that?
     
  19. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    Every deer. Check stomach contents too.
     
  20. Treestandsniper

    Treestandsniper Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Right Decision

    It sure looks like you made the right decision with the beast you are posing with!
     

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