Wait, wait...so if you are "new" to bowhunting it's okay to not be 100% sure of your shot? It's okay to shoot at an animal that you feel is too far away? It's okay not to be confident in your abilities, research equipment, practice from elevated positions, and take all these steps? Bad things happen sometimes, but to say that shooting a deer through the gut because you thought "getting an arrow in a deer" was the goal is just ludicrous.
I completely agree, but read my first post on page 1. Some hunters dont have the guidance to know that, which leads to poor decisions and hard lessons learned. Thats why I try and help the new hunters around me, so that they dont have to go through what I did, but not everyone is going to be reached before they step out into the woods = the over abundance of lost deer threads. I started hunting with no guidance and lost a lot of deer along the way. My step brother started with tons of guidance from his dad and has a much better record than I did starting out.
What do any of you think would happen if, when a new "bowhunter" came on here and asked which arrows he should get, someone replied that if he did not know what arrows to get he should not be bowhunting yet? If a person cannot even setup and tune their equipment should they be bowhunting? If a person did not know how to sight in a gun should they be hunting with that gun? with crappy ammo?
I think as stewards of the outdoors, we are all under the moral obligation to practice shooting in real life scenarios (shooting from a tree stand at a target placed in random positions at random yardage rather than exact 15, 20, 25, 30 markers), giving deer the proper time to expire, and proper tracking techniques. With these things in mind, we shouldn't accept losing a deer because of something we personally did wrong or could have done better. It will happen, and hopefully not on purpose, but it will happen no doubt. But if it was because of something careless on our behalf, then it isn't acceptable. I know there was conversation late last week about taking certain low percentage shots, and although I was 100% confident with my shots and they proved to be successful for me, we have to take the approach that risking something at the suffering of an animal isn't acceptable. For those of us who believe in God, I certainly don't think they were created just to be unfairly and inhumanly shot at, so it should be about reverence and moral obligation. EDIT: Yes, as Bruce said above, equipment should be tuned in by someone who knows what they are doing. There are some more obvious things that don't even register to me that people are actually out there hunting with untuned equipment.
If you do not know how to sight in the gun you will be hunting with and choose the proper ammo for the game you are pursuing, you should not be hunting with it. If you come on here to ask for advice, learn, setup your bow or equipment properly I see that as being responsible. That does not however mean you need to go hunting the fall after buying your bow in August. IMHO.
Did you not read my whole post? I said a beginner can go into the woods with the mindset of being 100% sure of the shot but due to inexperience/buck fever their common judgment can be blurred. Experience allows a hunter to learn how to deal with adrenaline and think more clearly. Read my whole post before you attack it. I have been reading forums for years but this is why I don't post often because guys want to start trying to attack others posts. It's stupid. This site and forum are here to try and help each other as bowhunters and express opinions/viewpoints and not argue or tear down others.
Im the one who said when I first started I thought the object was to get an arrow into the deer, so I will respond here. In no way, shape or form am I saying that its okay to do things like that when you are a new hunter. But when I started out, I had 0 knowledge and 0 guidance. I honestly thought that you just went out and shot deer and only after several big mistakes did I realize that that was not the case and decided that I needed to learn how to do it the right way. My point in saying this is that I dont feel it is productive to bash a new hunter who comes on here and posts about losing his deer due to bad decisions. Chances are he would leave and never come back for advice, leading to a longer "learning curve". If there was an effort to teach them, they may catch on quicker. And, as I said before, if it is an experienced hunter making poor decisions, have at em.
I did read your whole post. The problem I found with it is the opening statement. I wasn't trying to tear you down. Just disagreeing with the opening statement.
I think what he's saying is that research, education (understanding deer, their anatomy, their habits, their habitat etc.,) and proper guidance would help new hunters tremendously. It's like driving a car, the first year or two that a driver has their license is the most likely time they will get into an accident regardless of how high they scored on their drivers test or how well their parents taught them. There's a little bit of experience required to know how to react to certain situations while driving, but even with experience, it's not to say that making it past those first few years that they will never get into an accident. It's bound to happen, it's about limiting the things we can control - and even at that, no human is infallible.
The title of the thread is "How much is acceptable" Using the "Aim small miss Small" technique you set your mind at absolute zero. Because in reality, who on here would tell any hunter after losing a deer that is okay because "we all get one a year" or that's acceptable as it the "nature of the sport". I would hope none of you would. Because even though a 16 yr old new driver is more likely to get into a wreck it doesn't give him the right to drive 30mph over the speed limit because he's "new". Shat happens but does that make it acceptable? not in my mind. I won't accept that part.
I'll start this by saying please don't take this as an attack because that is not my intent and I don't disagree with your post in theory. But it lead me to questions. What is effective range? How is it determined? How often are there perfect conditions in real world hunting? I'm sure you are capable and deadly at 50 yards hell I feel that way too maybe even 65 yards. However my own personal "effective range" for hunting is much shorter than the range I can consistently kill my deer target. To me adding distance also adds variables and increases the chance that something may change before the arrow impacts. Which brings me back to "effective range" even a new archer can become deadly accurate with todays equipment in a very short amount of time. They may think their "effective range" is 45 yards based on the groups they've been shooting in their yard at their target and things they've read on forums about grouping and "effective ranges". And hey who am I to say it's not, I just know that knocking the bullseye out of the center of a target aint shooting a deer. I don't think any shot is 100% as things can and do go wrong I just feel like they are less likely to go wrong inside 30 yards. You have 20 shots at deer at 50 yards in real world hunting conditions(for the sake of the question we'll say broadside little wind)...you think you'd go 100% on shots and recovery? If you answer yes replay the last 20 deer you've shot at any range with your bow...100% shots & recovery?
Right, I hope my driving analogy didn't clutter what I meant because I agree, that's why I said: "it's bound to happen, it's about limiting the things we can control - and even at that, no human is infallible."
Good post Bruce and NEW. For the new Inexperienced bow hunters that have zero guidance I have no problem In the least giving them the benefit of the doubt as long as they listen when a person try's helping them when their asking. I'll tell you what though, some of the people giving advise can make a person puke. Too often I've over heard conversations at archery shops from the worker to the customer (soon to be 1st time bow hunter) that make me want to go over and punch the SOB giving advise. A few times I've stuck my nose In on the conversation. Most times the kid or new to be bow hunter looks at me like I'm an Idiot because I'm not the "pro", the pro shop guy Is. Many, many kids and adults who are getting Into bow hunting look up to these pro shop guys like they are god and the worlds best bow hunter. That's 100% perfectly fine and great but these "gods" better start giving the right advise. As far as I'm concerned many of them are not.
As a new bowhunter this topic is great and I have learned a lot from some of the "can't find me deer" threads. From what I have learned from you guys and friends is this. I have learned to tune my bow, test my broad heads vs field points and shooting from an elevated position. In addition to that, there are a lot of questions a new bowhunter needs to ask him/her self. I think about what my effective range is, right now I know I have consistent groups out to 30 yards. My "hard deck" is 30, no farther than that at all no matter how big the animal is! You have to think about what your effective range is and stick with it. I agree what was posted before "run around your house" to get your heart rate up. I was a classical guitarist and I use to do pushups and then practice performing to get use to the nerves. Yes this helps but the real thing can be different. My first day in the stand on Monday, I was ranging everything around me so I knew the distances if something walked in so I did not have to move to get my range finder. I drew my bow and moved around bending at the waist to feel how a steep angle shot would feel. I believe that you should not go out until you are ready, know your effective range, know your bow and be able to call yourself off of a shot that won't work or risk wounding the animal and not get greedy! Some of the posts about loosing a deer and getting back in the stand cause the looked for three hours is B.S.. You shot the deer, its YOUR responsibility to do everything you can to find that deer. If it did not hit where you intended it to or your shot is way off GO HOME and fix it before endangering another animal. There are a lot of things to consider, learn and put to practice, if you are going to rush it so you can call yourself a bowhunter...stay home. The ability to hunt is a privilege and its your responsibility to be an ethical hunter and know your equipment.
It is a culture of instant gratification, IMO. People are so used to having everything at their finger tips, checking their email from their cellphone, etc. So then they go hunting and get skunked a few times, and then they feel entitled to take a shot at the first deer that comes within 40 yards even if the deer is quartering toward them, even if their effective range should be 20 yards, etc.