High FOC vs Arrow weight

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by cmonsta, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. cmonsta

    cmonsta Grizzled Veteran

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    So I was curious based on others experience. Would you prefer a high FOC but lighter arrow, or a heavy arrow with low FOC for whitetails. Ill be shooting fixed blade. I have arrows ordered that will put be between 385-440 total grains (have 2 different spines, and both 125g and 145g heads). These arrows will have me between 13%-14.5% foc, so pretty decent. My other option would be to stick with FMJs, which will get me in the 475g range, but only around a 10% FOC. Ive heard a lot about high FOC helping fixed fly better. And also helps penetration. I know no matter what, those are decent weights and I cant go wrong, especially with fixed heads. Im just curious what others opinions are, and I would like the best option should I high something like a shoulder. Thank you.
     
  2. maxpetros

    maxpetros Grizzled Veteran

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    You can build an arrow that is heavy with high FOC as well. They generally go hand in hand as you need a lot of tip weight to increase FOC, this increasing overall weight. I'm shooting a 470 grain arrow with about 15% FOC. Would actually like it a little higher


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  3. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Honestly for whitetails under typical conditions( treestands/ blinds, close known ranges) I don't think you'd see any real world difference in performance. I think arrows of almost equal weight will act about the same on game in typical whitetail situations, providing all the other variables are equal.

    Now with that said I think in broken country( think open country)where ranges are unknown and shots tend to be on the longer side I prefer an arrow with a higher FOC providing the weight is aboutthe same. I think you will see some increased down range stability and penetration out of the higher FOC set up.
    I will even go so far as to use a slightly lighter total weight arrow with a much higher FOC, because in my experience down range performance is enhanced when i get up closer to the 20% FOC mark. In simple terms the arrow performs heavier then it is because of location of the weight.
     
  4. elkguide

    elkguide Grizzled Veteran

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    Man do I hate to agree with Trials but he hit this one out of the park.
    While all of this is great to talk about and build and calculate, for whitetails at whitetail ranges and most terrain, you won't notice any difference. (and neither will the deer!)
     
  5. cmonsta

    cmonsta Grizzled Veteran

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    Thanks guys! I guess penetration was only half the question. I also mean for getting fixed blade to fly better.
     
  6. Coop

    Coop Grizzled Veteran

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    I only shoot fixed blades and the highest FOC I've shot is about 15%, most of my arrows are around 11-12%. I think it's easy to get sucked into thinking you NEED 15-20% when reading online forums, but it's not necessary. There is nothing wrong with it, but some guys on AT will have you believe your arrows will bounce off a deer at 40 yards unless you are shooting 500 grains and 20% FOC lol.
     
  7. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    I think fixed blade heads will fly better with the higher FOC arrow if all things are equal. However I honestly don't think you will see it inside of 40 yards. At greater distances however I think you may notice the difference especially with larger profile fixed blade heads.
     
  8. Riverduck11

    Riverduck11 Weekend Warrior

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    I was enamored with the thought of great penetraton with a high FOC. I took a light weight arrow and worked it all the way up to 467 grains with a 17.3% foc. This was from a 385 grain arrow with 9% foc. I honestly can say I have noticed no difference and actually just bough new arrows last week where I am back to 392 grain with an 10.3% foc.

    I will say this which is contrary to what some say on downrange penetration. On say target shot of 60 plus yards, my arrow seem to be pointing down which means the point is not going in straight, but at an angle, this seem to cost me penetration.

    So I think I think I would go with heavy throughout and a mid foc.

    I can not comment on the fixed blade aspect as I shoot mechanicals.


     
  9. northwestmulie

    northwestmulie Newb

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    here in the west it is usual for us to have winds when changing from summer to fall - the higher foc arrows are a lot better in those conditions
     
  10. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    at 60 yards, an arrow flying true will be point down. I would be concerned if it wasn't.
     
  11. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Higher FOC will improve down range accuracy. Think of it like this. Take two arrows that are identical. Put 150gr point on one and a 100gr point on another. More weight helps steer the the front of the arrow in a vertical plane downward better by having more of an affect on the front of the arrow. Lighter weight will not have the same influence on the front of the arrow and "search" through the air more as it flies downrange. If I'm not mistaken, FITA shooters, who shoot 90 meters use a ton of weight on the front of their arrows for this reason (among others).

    As for penetration. More weight on the front of an arrow will flex an arrow less at impact as opposed to a lighter broadhead. Less flex transfers the energy of the arrow to the point, resulting in better penetration. Spread the weight out by shooting lighter points for example will cause the arrow to flex more at impact. In an extreme example, put a bunch of weight on the nock end and you'll significantly flex the arrow at impact, dissipating energy that could be used for penetration.

    its really all about momentum. It takes less distance to stop a car if you leave off the gas and allow it to coast to a stop than it is a locomotive, if both are traveling at the same speed. Even if the locomotive is traveling 20mph slower, it will take more distance to stop.

    Of course at a smaller scale like we're dealing with, the line and or balance is smaller and more variables are usually at play. However, I am a big believer in heavier arrows with higher FOC being superior to their counterparts.

    My current setup is a 450gr Gold Tip Pro Hunter. I added an additional 50gr to the inserts to bump up my FOC to 18%. Its been the best shooting combo to date for me and the penetration is awesome out of a 63lb bow. Of course I shoot a fixed blade Slick Trick head as well. I have little doubt that this arrow will blow through shoulder bone in the event I make a bad shot. I've actually done that will less weight in the past.
     
  12. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Good discussion
     
  13. maxpetros

    maxpetros Grizzled Veteran

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    This is due to the fact that the heavier arrow has a more parabolic flight path than the lighter one. Think rainbow. It's inherent that the heavier arrow will have a steeper arc, thus leading to a more tip down entry. Nothing to do with FOC.


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  14. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Grizzled Veteran

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    Agreed!

    I was one of the guys enamored by heavy arrows and high FOC earlier this year... I convinced myself after this season I am switching everything to achieve a heavier arrow and higher FOC.

    After reading this thread I don't believe I will be doing that as I am the "typical" hunter, rarely getting a shot at 40 yards.
     
  15. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I will caution you in that even though you shoot less than 40, the benefits of a heavier, higher FOC arrow are better penetration and more stable arrow flight (usually). I shoot that setup for insurance purposes. Its simply nice knowing that if my shot is not as great as I intended and I hit heavy bone/muscle, the heavier arrow combo may help me out a bit.

    In a perfect world, all of our shots will be right on the money on broadside animals that are relaxed, etc. Even light weight arrows will do the job on thin skinned animals like a whitetail. I'm not perfect.
     
  16. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Grizzled Veteran

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    I guess I should have clarified - I was set on buying all new arrows, heads, inserts... The works.

    Now I am planning on modifying my Gold Tips with an insert and getting my arrow to 12% give or take. No need to get 17%+ like I was aiming for earlier this year.
     
  17. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    No worries. You have a few options here. If you can remove your current inserts, you can go with the brass inserts, which I believe weigh 100gr. They also make brass weights that screw into the back of the insert. You have buy a 3ft long allen wrench to screw them in, but who doesn't need an allen wrench that long? :lol:

    One piece of advise. If you use any type of screw in weight, put a drop of blue loctite on the threads to keep them from rattling loose. They WILL if you don't.
     
  18. Riverduck11

    Riverduck11 Weekend Warrior

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    I think it does still have something to do with FOC. The higher the foc, the more angle in the arrow or steeper your rainbow eventually downrange. The steeper that rainbow is the more that vector is point down as opposed to forward and through the target. At that point the momentum is not being transferred straight through.

    I do understand what most have said as well I just think that too high an FOC can have the angle pointed too far down and not forward enough to achieve maximum penetration.

     
  19. maxpetros

    maxpetros Grizzled Veteran

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    It does have some to do with FOC as higher FOC and tip weight are related. So to achieve the higher FOC more weight was added. What you were seeing was a product of the arrows weight. Two arrows of identical weight, one with more FOC, will have the same trajectory.


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  20. ShaneB22

    ShaneB22 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    If a high foc really improves down range accuracy then how come some professional archers can shoot 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards with 10% foc or less? As a professional archer once said don't buy into the high foc hype because that's mostly what it is, just hype. I haven't had any trouble with 12% foc and for whitetail deer you probably don't need anymore to get good penetration. If you're going for anything bigger than a whitetail I don't think you need to worry much about foc.
     

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