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Help me understand...

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Vabowman, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    I am a gun owner, I am gun user (hunting only). I support the 2nd Amendment. I am a civics teacher. How do I answer my students when they ask " why does someone need an AR 15 that holds 50+ rounds?" This recent shooting today in Texas is followed by Vegas. 2 in a month or so. I am really trying hard to understand and support the sale of these weapons.. give me some good reasons why they are legal. I am not wanting a fight, I am honestly seeking answers.
     
  2. _andrewgiles_sio

    _andrewgiles_sio Weekend Warrior

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    If you support the second amendment, you should understand that it’s not about the “need”, it’s about the right. It’s the legal right of mentally stable Americans to: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


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  3. ruteger

    ruteger Guest

    Bad people will always find ways to do bad things no matter what is against the law.
     
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  4. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    I know. And I have explained that to my students. But many times it's people that have no criminal record and then they snap and go kill the masses..so can banning the weapons help?
     
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  5. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    I agree. I am just trying to explain why they are legal to my students who are 13 years old. The answer " because we can" doesn't seem to justify it to many of them
     
  6. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    I would and always ask what is it about AR15's that make them different or more lethal than any other semi-auto? Handguns easily outnumber the cause of deaths by at least 3 or 4 times. Function the same and have similar capacities.

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  7. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    they tell me that because they can hold so many rounds and that most of if not all mass shootings are done with assault rifles... they also point out Canada, England, and Australia don't have mass shooting and they have very strict gun laws..
     
  8. bucksnbears

    bucksnbears Grizzled Veteran

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    I understand your frustrations man.
    That would be a tough to answer to them youngsters.
     
  9. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    I mean I don't have any use for one, I have shotguns and a 22 long rifle and they protect my home fine, but I am not sure the gov't should be telling me what i should own..but to a 13 yr old, these identify the weapon as the issue and if it was out of sight and would be out of mind
     
  10. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    I gotcha, idk sure it's tough to explain to any kid let alone a entire classroom full.

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  11. Kfili

    Kfili Die Hard Bowhunter

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    As a teacher as well, I am in a similar position, it becomes increasingly difficult to try to explain that bad people do bad things...These two attacks have started to make me sway in my ultra pro AR stance... I definitely have to do some thinking to see where I still stand...
     
  12. Hillbilly Jedi

    Hillbilly Jedi Die Hard Bowhunter

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    This is a very touchy and difficult question to be asked, let alone answer to a class of kids looking for answers. I am a veteran and support the 2nd Amendment 100%. I personally don't have the need to own an AR-15 or AK style rifle and probably never will, but I also don't want them to be illegal for those who do want them. Ultimately the responsibility is on the individual owning the weapon to do the right thing with it no matter what type of firearm it is. You don't know if or when someone will use it in the wrong fashion; you just have to hope they won't.

    We didn't stop flying because some planes were hi-jacked and flown into buildings.
    We didn't stop renting trucks because someone filled one with explosives and parked it in front of a federal building or at the World Trade Center.
    We don't stop driving cars because the person on the other side of the road might be drunk.

    I think the saying: "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns" holds a lot of weight. If we take them from the people who use them responsibly, only those using them irresponsibly will have them. (for the most part anyway)

    Ultimately no amount of laws will be able to protect us from someone who wants to hurt us with a gun. IMO, the only thing that will potentially detour people is much stiffer penalties for possessing illegal weapons and using them against innocent people. You don't have to tell the kids this but putting someone through the suffering their victims endure, may be the only way to detour this. To steal a quote from Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction......"What now? Let me tell you what now. I'ma call a coupla hard, pipe-hittin' niggers, who'll go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'ma get medieval on your ass." Do something like this publicly and you might make people think twice.
     
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  13. Justin

    Justin Administrator

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    As much as we'd like to believe this is true, in most cases of mass shootings the shooter is fully prepared to either be killed in the act or take their own life before being captured. It's happened in nearly every instance on record. So no matter the threat of punishment, they simply don't care.

    Now to address to the original question, I think it's important first that we educate people on what an "AR" rifle is and what makes it different from that hunting gun you own. Most people, including your students, believe an "AR" rifle is an "Assault Rifle" or an "Automatic Rifle". Neither of which are true. As most of us already know, an AR rifle is primarily different to what many consider a "hunting rifle" in terms of looks only. In fact, most AR weapons are chambered in lesser calibers than hunting rifles since they're most popularly used for varmint hunting or target shooting. So the first step, just like with anything in life, is learning the facts. Make sure your students know that an "AR" rifle does not do anything significantly different than any other rifle.

    So banning AR rifles isn't going to be the final answer. You ban AR's, confiscate them all and destroy them, and the next guy grabs a bag full of handguns when he walks into a church, or sits on a roof with a 700 win mag and picks people off from hundreds of yards away. The only way you would stop deaths from guns entirely would be to get rid of them all, and fortunately that cannot happen in this country. In order to preserve our way of life, and our freedom, the public at large must retain the right to own firearms. It's the sad reality we live in.
     
  14. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    Something simply has to be done, I have no idea what but the trend of mass shooting is happening more and more often. I don't trust the gov't to come up with a solution but like I said something has to change, do we need armed guards everywhere I don't know.
     
  15. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I think it is important to continue to explain that it is the person behind the gun that is the problem. Ask them if they had an AR style gun or any other if they would kill a person. We need to with kids and adults turn the question where it belongs. Why people have such a lack of respect for life.


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  16. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Simple dumb, then why have any laws with that logic?
     
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  17. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Mental Health issue in this country is a huge problem, no we can't have healthcare either for them, or put them on a no buy list, never mind, bad people will just do bad things.
     
  18. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Idk about Canada, never been there, but every other country I've been to has them. So guess if you basically want the national guard patroling the streets that what all the places everone always compares to US that doesn't have these shooting.

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  19. tkarrow

    tkarrow Weekend Warrior

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    " why does someone need an AR 15 that holds 50+ rounds?"... they don't.
     
  20. tkarrow

    tkarrow Weekend Warrior

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    True but access to excessively dangerous weapons makes the bad things worse.
     

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