Here's what's going on. 70 lb bow, 29" draw, Beman ICS 300 spine, 125 gr stinger buzzcut/black hornets, 50gr brass insert, 2" blazers with right helical, through a whisker biscuit. The 2" blazers through a biscuit with right helical always worked perfect with Muzzy's. Now that I've switched to two blade heads I'm wondering if straight fletch would be better or just bite the bullet, keep the right helical and move to a fall away rest (which I don't want to do). Thoughts gentlemen? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
I’d recommend testing them to find out if they fly good with your set up. Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
Have you tried them yet and are having tuning issues? I realize you are probably asking more about a helical fletching through a WB, but... Looking at a Beman spine chart, it does show you at a 300 spine with a 29" arrow at 70 lbs using the higher more aggressive cam system. But it doesn't show anything to account for adding a 50 grain insert. Spine is weakened quickly when adding tip weight. I think by adding a heavy insert you are weak on the spine with a 125 head. In comparison, the GT spine calculator for a 29" arrow at 70 lbs. shows a 300 spine with a 125gr head, but a 250 spine for a 150gr tip. You are at 175gr tip with your above set up. I'd shoot a bare shaft into a broad head target (layered foam, not a stuffed bag) and see what you are getting. I think nock left is going to be happening. (sign of weak spine) I have no answer about the helical vs. straight with a WB, I've never used one. If the arrows are already built, then aside from the possible weak spine I would just shoot the helical through the WB and see what I got. If trouble, then strip the fletching and try a straight. All in all I'd say you're going to have issues from weak spine and possibly the helical through a WB. Another good way to check tune is to shoot a broad head and a target tip at the same POA and see if they hit together. (they should if tune is good)
I am currently having problems with arrow flight, since there's 15 things that could be contributing to this I figured I would try addressing this first. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
I have a bullet hole when bare shafting. Field points hit where I want them (same weight as head) but the broad heads fly in a 4 ft group. Figured the helical through the biscuit might be causing problems with the 2 blade heads. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
Other than asking what distance you are seeing a bullet hole with a bareshaft, and if you have tried more than one distance, then I would agree with you. It does seem like the fletching isn't countering the planning of the BH to steer it, or the helical through the WB is an issue. I like to tune by paper tuning at 3 yards (I have a shop do this), and then shoot bare shaft and fletched at 20 yards and make rest adjustments to get the bare shafts hitting at the same angle as fletched and to the same POI. It might be time to either strip and fletch, or have a shop do it, a couple arrows with straight fletching with your current 2" Blazers and perhaps a couple with either straight 4" vanes or try a 4 fletch straight 2" vane setup. PIA, but then you'll get an answer.
I bare shaft at 6 ft then again at 20 yards. Maybe 1 out of every 7 shots (with the heads on) hit the bullseye. The other six can range from 2' high and 3' to the right, to the dirt in front of the target, then 3' high and 2' left. The fact that every once in a while I drill what I'm aiming at has led me to believe it's a steering issue and once in a while the fletchings pass the biscuit just right and it flies true. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
Are bare shaft shooting with broad heads on there? That may be the problem. I had a similar problem earlier this year as I experimented with adding weight up front. I also shoot a whisker biscuit. I had to go from a 300 to a 250 spine. I can shoot the 300 with a 125 head, 55 half out and 75 brass for a total of 255 grains up front. However, if I go to a 150 grain head I need the 250 spine. Mostly likely this is your issue. A couple other things to try if you do not think it is a weak spine: 1) check your grip. The one drawback to a whisker biscuit is that if you grip the bow wrong, the arrow flight becomes erratic. To keep my grip consistent, I keep a bare shaft and will shoot that through paper every once in a while for practice rather than shooting for distance outside. 2) Mark a bare shaft with a silver sharpie on the nock. Stand only an arrow length from your target, nock the bareshaft with the sharpie mark up and shoot. Note the direction of arrow spin as indicated by the mark. Your arrows are fletched helical right, but you may have an arrow that spins left out of the bow. It is possible that the direction of right helical is not correct for your arrows. That could also cause terrible grouping with broad heads that would not show up with field points.
straight fletch would be the worst you can do with fixed heads, you need spin to stabilize the arrow/BH ... straight fletch dosnt cut it ... I shot a helical for years thru my Biscuit using Blazers, using Slick Mags and Standards, good arrow flight and FP/BH grouping ... there is also a good chance you have a weak spine, this is what the heavy arrow/FOC crap gets ya ... keep your FOC between 8-15% and one will do fine .. the arrow is on the rest longer with a Biscuit so form/grip is very important, problems torquing will show .... also, dont bare shaft with BH's on, doing so, will only lead to headaches , stay with FP's....
I only bare shaft with field points. Bare shafting with BH's is like shooting a fletched arrow backwards. I know my grip and torque are ok. I had to work on that extensively after I cut 1/4 of my hand off. I also use an IQ with retina lock to help out with that. I ordered a 250 and 200 spine to try out as well, I love my whisker biscuits so hopefully the spine is the problem. It's crunch time, season opens in 30 days. I have to get this taken care of soon so I can take the contest winning buck for my team. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
The WB is an excellent hunting rest .... I use one on my back up bow ... I say stay with a stiff vane/helical or a hard offset ..
With the really errant flight I don't think I'd bank on it solely being a spine issue, I think you may have a fletching issue too. I think trying some 4" vanes with a slight helical is also something worth trying...but I also will admit I have zero experience trying to get a two blade to fly.
Weak spine is most likely the issue then. Another thing to consider could be the length of your current arrows are too long. The end of the carbon should line up with the edge of the riser. My 300 spines were sticking about about 1.5 inches past the riser. I trimmed the arrows both and that helps to stiffen the spine as well. When I ordered 250 spines are ordered them to match the length of the cut down 300s.
If you can turn your draw eight down and that fixes the problem, that would probably point to a spine problem as well Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
I had a 2 inch blazer vane with a right helical that shot just fine with stinger buzzcuts at 29” draw and 72lbs. There wasn’t any flight issues as long as the Foc was what was pulling the arrow. I had 17% I think in that set up. Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
Problem solved! It was the vanes. I went from the right helical to a 1 degree offset and it's shooting like a dream. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
Now the only problem is the pass throughs. My arrows blew right through my yellow jacket target, so I put my McKenzie in front of the bag target and it still sails through both with the practice broadhead. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
Yee haw, I'd say you've got some momentum. Go buy one of the cheap foam BH targets, they are just a white square with a target on them. Set that in front of the others.
