FTR, I'm not questioning what Ty did. I'm questioning the DNR giving him permission to do so on state ground. Which is what I think you gents are failing to understand.
Then ask the DNR that question, not Ty. If they allowed him to do it, I highly doubt they just gave him the go ahead without doing any research.
I understand what your saying, all I'm saying is is I don't care. It's one less ****** who needs to be hunting. If given permission by an authority figure what more do you need? Especially if you have evidence that can lead to a conviction. If your going to be a criminal and do this kind of stuff, whether it be poaching, selling drugs, robbing....I don't care how you get brought to justice and I don't care who brings you down. As long as the trash is swept up its all good.
But you did. You specifically said "I'd be leery of a friend that patrols land that isn't theirs looking to catch people." Maybe you changed your tune in later posts that I missed, but I'd say that specific quote is pretty much the opposite of an endorsement of Ty's actions. As far as I can google, there are no laws prohibiting trail cams on public land in Indiana (for any purpose; not just game surveys.) It's been a few years since I hunted Indiana, but I've never heard of any regs against it either. Given that this particular parcel appears to be some sort of "sanctuary"; there may be special regs that address that issue - but Ty's covered in this case w/ his email exchange w/ the DNR. I'm done w/ the back and forth; but here's to hoping Ty's hit lister is still alive and kicking, and the scumbag poachasser gets a hefty fine and loses his hunting privs.
Ok. Apparently I did. Sorry Ty. Google all you want, I don't think you'll get the specific answer to the question I'm curious about.
Seems like a lot of energy and possibly of a good friendship wasted over some deer. I don't even know if it's about the deer anymore. If a friend came up to me wanting the name of another friend that was caught on camera (by a regular Joe and on state land) I wouldn't want to give name either. This whole thing seems shady to me. In a normal situation being caught actually poaching, then I'd say throw the book at the guy. Not in this situation though. Hopefully nothing happens to the dude that was on the camera.
To answer this question Dan, in a way I guess yes, but we don't position any of them in areas that would make the DNR or anyone else think they are there for the soul purpose of deer scouting, because we do not want anyone thinking we are hunting the place. This is also why we never go to these cameras in hunting clothes, or in accordance with the preserve rules we never have a weapon of any kind on us.
That last question is why I think I've begun to feel how much is this property worth if we always have to deal with headaches like this...yes it is one of our best properties to hunt, we don't have to pay a direct lease but plant trees and pay in work, but every year we deal with something and it is exhausting to be honest. I know at this point Muzzy I can say 100% it isn't just wanting to win. This is all about the integrity of the hunting laws, and not turning a blind eye to something we know and the landowner desires us to try to catch. In the end the landowner wants us to do something and if it is legal we will continue to do it.
What we thought....which is why the first thing I did was contact DNR letting them know I will be checking camera and to see if they received a call for request of deer recovery (which you must do) and this would have been totally 100% fine and legal and applauded.
Sorry Ty, I'm still confused a bit. "In a way yes" doesn't really answer the question. Can John Q. Public place a trail camera on this land for wildlife viewing legally? It could be just for bird watching. It's a yes or no answer and the sole reasoning behind my posts on this thread.
There is deep regret on my part in having to bring my friend into it...but when the person pictured wasn't the family member of the neighbor I recognized I knew I had to and the reason being I couldn't let this blatant disregard for hunting laws go willy nilly...it had nothing to do with RD and everything to do with protecting the integrity of hunting, the landowner's wishes and the discussion I've had with the DNR. So...knowing my friend knew the family and some of the people that hunted with them I showed him the picture...the sad fact is in the end he will have to come to grips his buddy isn't the hunter he claims to be and possibly not the man he claims to be...and he may hold resentment on me due to me being the one involved in uncovering that. It sucks, and is a ****ty situation PERIOD...no way around it, but sometimes the right thing is the farthest thing from the comfortable thing and this is definitely one of those times. There is no confirmed poaching on film or does my friend think the guy pictured got anything because he feels he'd have told him. The picture sequences show him about 20 yards into the state ground and walking deeper 3 hours before dark with an arrow nocked and ready to rock...then him leaving after dark. This same sequence repeats the following day at the same times roughly. Clearly hunting, clearly trespassing and clearly breaking game laws which were suspected. But I will emphasize no poaching is confirmed to have occurred. Sorry I thought you meant us specifically. The way the DNR responded to us made it seem as though it was perfectly legal for us or anyone to run trail cameras there for any purpose so long as done legally. Meaning nothing removed or damaged in the hanging of the camera. NO weapons or hunting occur going to or from the camera on the no hunting preserve and that they would appreciate any pictures of wrong doing turned over to them. We personally run them there with almost entirely the motive of keeping everyone honest that is suspected (now confirmed) of wrong doing. But it is my understanding that yes anyone could if they desired.
Ok, with that statement, I'll clarify. My previous posts were under the assumption that it wasn't legal to run trail cameras on the state ground. Hence, you asking for the DNR's permission. If it was illegal, my opinion would stand as previously stated. But, since it's legal, have at it and have fun. Run a million cameras, for all I care. I only had a problem with the DNR giving someone sole permission to "break the law" for the purpose of running a sting operation on the public. On a personal note, there's no way I could do do what you stated in the first sentence of your second paragraph, without owning the land I hunt. To me, hunting is an enjoyable escape and no deer is worth losing sleep over. edit: Why would you ask permission to do something that was already legal?
On the same note, why would he question the DNR's judgment/answer of letting him do it after getting the yes whether it was legal for everyone or not?
Ok and my point is, if he got permission he is doing nothing wrong so why should he question the legality of it? Or why should anyone question it?
Just because he was given permission to do something, doesn't mean it's legal. If it were illegal for people to run trail cams on this piece of property, the evidence he obtained could easily be thrown out of court during the prosecution of the poacher. I have a hard time with people turning a blind eye to the laws of our country, that ensure our personal freedoms, just because it fits their agenda. It's pretty simple reasoning, actually.
I don't understand how if he gets permission from someone that enforces the laws of that area how it is illegal? But in the end it doesn't sound like it matters anyways because anybody could run cameras only there.
Okay well the beans are ready to harvest so I will just sit back and watch the thread furthermore. Thanks for the friendly debate, Dan.
