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Genetics

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Hunting' started by jlbmarine, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    All these people who use the quote "i need to kill that deer to get rid of his genetics" are truly annoying me.... for the most part, the mutations that are seen aren't exactly genetic mutations, but mutations based on diet... I said this in another post, look up the condition know as "foundering" it may give you a little insight on what genetic mutations are as opposed to diet based mutations.... In a nutshell, stop killing deer based on your years of genetic research on animals(which most likely your not qualified to anyways).... and hunt for the hunt.....
     
  2. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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  3. Slugger

    Slugger Grizzled Veteran

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    So is your point to start a thread attempting to bash those who believe this. You could have simply pointed this out instead of stating "In a nutshell, stop killing deer based on your years of genetic research on animals(which most likely your not qualified to anyways). This would have been a better thread if you simply brought up the research.
     
  4. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    So its bashing by tell people they are wrong? I'm not attempting to bash anyone, I'm simply stating the fact that it annoys me that people use "genetics" as an excuse for killing a deer with attributes and deformities they don't understand.

    SO you have a write up and and explanation for the write up.
     
  5. Goosepond Monster

    Goosepond Monster Die Hard Bowhunter

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    So genetics have nothing to do with a buck's rack? I'm not trying to pretend I am an expert or anything, but it seems to me that some bucks show a trait that is similar to other bucks in a certain area.

    Look at the right brow tine on both deer below...

    [​IMG]

    Looks awfully similar to me. The deer on the left was harvested a few years back and I'd venture a guess that the deer on the right is his offspring based on the similarity of the brow tine. The deer on the right obviously blew up and became a monster, but who is to say that his dad or grandpa wouldn't have done the same?
     
  6. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    What i Specifically was getting at: Some people use the term genetics to describe a deformities, not all deformities are genetic. Those deer certainly share similar characteristics, but i'm sure I can find a picture that shares those attributes as well. What makes these pictures great, is that they show two deer with similar characteristics they are presumably taken from the same area.

    I'm specifically referring to instances such as: "that deer has a gimp, must be bad genetics" or "that deer only has 1 full rack and 1 partial, must be bad genes"(most likely was broken off during its growth phase and in process of healing).... and those people truly think that genetics is the case instead of something as simple as it being hit by a car, bad diet(foundering) and other possibilities...
     
  7. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    Id venture to guess you tranquilized the deer in the first picture only to blast it years later!..... jk...:busted:
     
  8. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    Both are great looking deer by the way! Congrats if those are yours!
     
  9. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Genetics is one of many factors which contribute to growing big antlers. Most mature bucks ( at least 3.5yo) will not net 125. Why does Wisconsin lead in book entries? Why do 3 counties lead the state yet other counties can hardly get an entry?
     
  10. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    Answer:
    Environment, population, and genetics . There is no way to say that counties a,b,c have superior genes.... what about: population density and environment
     
  11. Fitz

    Fitz Legendary Woodsman

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    Because the mature deer in those counties are dumb? :poke:

    I must say that I don't see the number of people saying that deformities are cause by genetics that jlb does. I think that like most things in nature, it's a balance. Genetics, nutrition (though, I can show you some big bucks that have never eaten corn or beans), age, stress...
     
  12. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    I dont really mean to say that there are tons of people saying it, but its the lack of understanding that gets to me and the "hunter wisdom". Basically the only reason they want to kill a particular deer, is because they are afraid that it is going to poison the population.

    I definitely agree that its a balance. Basically product of the environment if we could agree there?
     
  13. WiscoBowHunter

    WiscoBowHunter Die Hard Bowhunter

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    so your saying the shooting a old buck with a small messed up rack is wrong. We like to have a heathly deer population on are property!
     
  14. Hoyt_Archer

    Hoyt_Archer Weekend Warrior

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    An old buck with a small messed up rack (LOL)has little to do with herd health but more about the age and decline of him which is a common find.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  15. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Okay first of all rack size has 0% bearing on the health of the herd. Does stress or health of the animal sometimes come out in the racks yes, but rack size or characteristics have 0% on health on the surface.

    That stated each person doesn't manage their property the same, I get what the OP is saying though. I hear it all the time from guys, I shot him to get his genetics out of the herd. Honestly I've seen some late bloomers grow into something very special....besides some deer just don't grow MASSIVE headgear but once they reach 4 1/2, 5 1/2, 6 1/2 and older they're just as much of a trophy as the 3 1/2 year old blessed with 150+inches of bone, the written record books are not the true designation of trophy or not trophy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  16. Goosepond Monster

    Goosepond Monster Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I should have added that those aren't my deer.

    The one on the right is what is now known as the Beck Buck. It is the second largest deer ever harvested by a hunter.

    Both deer were harvested in the same area of Indiana. It was the first picture that came to mind when I started reading this thread.
     
  17. ChuckC

    ChuckC Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Saw this on NAW Muzzy Moments the other day and thought it was pertinent to this thread. JMHO but genetics of that deer is something to consider moreover than the idea that it was caused by the environment. Also, most Antler Point Restrictions would keep that buck alive and in the gene pool.

    [video=youtube_share;RMIqRqGy-To]http://youtu.be/RMIqRqGy-To[/video]

    Now I am not saying once a 4 point always a 4 point or even spike for that matter. This is one situation and example of how there are always exceptions to the rules. Genetics always will be a part of it.
     
  18. jlbmarine

    jlbmarine Weekend Warrior

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    Agreed!
    9282011 021.jpg
    here is a doe with a broken leg, which had fawns from 2007-2012, nothing wrong with the dee, broke her leg, i let her live because she produced 2-3 each year and was a fighter!
     
  19. uncljohn

    uncljohn Weekend Warrior

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    Where I hunt, you can tell the gene pools each young buck is coming from, we had this scrapply guy we called Zambezie. He had this tall spindly 6 point rack that was never going to become an 8. And he was running around hitting up lots of does. Well 2 years later you can easily tell Zambezie's sires b/c they all had the same TALL spindly spikes. And they will all have sub-par racks even when mature. THIS IS GENETICS 101. And if you want to manage your deer population to maximize quality racks (if you're a rack hunter), then you take out those bucks.

    "Genetic MUTATIONS" are something different altogether.
     
  20. Fitz

    Fitz Legendary Woodsman

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    It should also be noted that bucks are only supplying half of the genes. Can't cull the does that are just as responsible. :tu:
     

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