For you guys that frost seed clover before spring.....when do you do it? I have a clover plot that's pretty thin and want to frost seed it. I have a feeling this spot will be pretty hard to get the clover to grow in, unless I start it over. If it doesn't show improvement by early summer, we're going to turn it and start over.
Ideally when the temps in the morning are below freezing but the afternoon temps thaw the surface, then refreeze at night. That works the seed into the natural crevices. For us here in PA this time is typically ideal mid-march. I've had great luck this way.
Thanks Matt. Do you think it would hurt to spread the seed earlier? The cabin is an hour away and with tax season upon us for my wife I will only be able to make it there a handful of times. I would think it would be ok to spread before that, even with some snow on the ground, as it will soak in once the snow melts. Maybe I'm wrong.
I would think it would be ok. My only concern would be the snow melting and possibly washing some of the seed off, but you should put a much heavier coating down when frost seeding so it may not matter.
Thanks again Matt. Its a pretty flat plot, so I'm not too worried about it washing away. I was also planning on seeding it a bit heavier anyways.
Dan, I am going to be doing the same thing and have had several farmers tell me that they have had good luck throwing the seed out on snow. I think you would be fine any time now. Good luck.
Thanks Fletch. I may just do it this weekend, since its supposed to be in the mid 30s and we're supposed to get some snow again next week. No idea when I'll make it up again after this weekend.
I hope it does. I wasn't there when the plot was first put in a couple years ago, so I don't know how well the ground was prepped. Like I said, if it doesn't establish this spring, I'll turn it over and start over in the fall.
How old is the clover plot Dan? Only reason I ask is if it's 4 or 5 years it may be time to plant some brassicas or mix it up some...never a good thing to have clover (or anything really) for extremely long spans of time. As for frost seeding, it's pretty much fool proof. Just do it like Fletch said anytime. We actually will be forst seeding some clover, switchgrass and trying buckwheat frost seeding for the first time (it's such a cheap seed we're just curious to see if it'll work)
If the plot/area hasn't been prepped well in advance, your results will vary. Prior lime and fertilizer applications will play a major role in your success. I wouldn't frost seed into a plot that was just tilled in the fall with no other prior preparation. Like all spring plantings/growth, you may be competing with spring weed growth, so if you already are frost seeding into an existing perennial, you will have some cover protection to suppress the weed growth. TYN, actually, there are clover varieties that exist to become established for essentially...ever. Granted they're much harder to get growing initially. I'm on my 6th year with simple ladino and alice, and the only reason I'm tilling under is for some change. The deer are still hitting it hard every year, and it keeps coming back hard year after year. Rotation is good for the soil, though. I would definitely be curious to see how your buckwheat turns out because I know it's VERY sensitive to frost, and actually needs a pretty high soil temp to germinate.
MGH you hit that nail on the head...frost seeding is dependant upon the area being prepared going into it for it to work as beneficially as it should. Yeah the buckwheat experiment is fully expected to fail, but that's why it's an experiment I guess. The buckwheat will be planted in our two newest small food plots for the mere reason of having some green matter to put into the soil come our fall plantings of clover and winter rye....so no big deal if we'll have to re-plant it after the frost seeding attempt falls through. Also the clover thing, I realize some clovers will stay established for years, and definitely proper trimmings will encourage better growth but I'd still rather not let clover sit longer than 4/5 years...and honestly will probably do a 3 or 4 year rotation. The clover will naturally build up nitrogen in the soil over time and just like almost anything we plant it can starve the soil of certain nutrients unless proper fertilizing is done throughout it's existance. I'm a fan of minimizing my need to fertilize and utilize green fertilizing as much as possible now. Rotating what you plant gives you good green matter, utilizes naturally stored nutrients and gives the deer a different 'spice' from time to time. We by no means have a large operation on our 10 acres, however our 8 (1/8 to 1/2 acre) food plots are in the process of being planned out to where rotating them from year to year will help us better utilize green fertilizing and get the deer accustomed to our property holding a wide arrangement of food. I guess that's where I come from when I say I don't want clover sitting in one spot for too long...however if I was blessed with 30, 50 or even more acreage I most definitely would utilize longer standing clover spots because they're easy to establish and will supply deer with food pretty much 2/3 of the year!
It was started 2 years ago, I believe. Again, if it doesn't take, I'll probably turn it over in the summer and plant a fall mix in it.
This is another reason I'm not real concerned with this particular clover plot. We have 640 acres split into 3 chunks. On the one 400 acre chunk we have 4 fields. Two (9 and 18 acres) are rented to a farmer and this year they are putting them back into alfalfa for a few years. We also have a 10 and a 7.5 acre fields. In the 7.5 acre field we have 1 acre dedicated to clover, which is doing great. The rest of that field will be corn and soybeans. The particular clover plot I'm looking to frost seed is very close to the 1 acre clover patch. If it takes, great, if not, no loss. The 10 acre field we are planting 6.5 acres of corn and 3.5 acres of beans this year. There are very few fields around out property and these we will leave standing all winter to hold the deer. Man, I'm rambling. Like you said, rotating the plots is key. We only have 3 other plots on our property and are going to add a few more small ones this year, as well as expand the existing ones. I'm hoping to get a good crop rotation pattern going over the next few years.
Sounds like an excellent set up Dan! Yeah with that much land I'd be utilizing long standing clover plots just for no other reason than lower maintanence (and I love this stuff!)
Hey Tyni, with your piece of property, do you ever feel as if you have too many plots? We have a lot of room to work with, but I'm paranoid of putting too many plots in too close together. Besides our fields, we only have a few small plots and they are quite a ways apart. We are going to put a couple more in, but would like to do even more, but am afraid it would be counterproductive.
I used to...but anymore nope! Here's why though, our property is a natural transition spot. We have great bedding to our north/northwest and to our east...we've since put in a micro bedding area (maybe an acre in size) on the Southern part of our property (both on lightly hunted or not hunted properties). This creates a triangle set up of bedding areas, with only one of the three actually on our property (something we have to sacrifice with our limited acreage size). We don't and won't ever have a large food plot, our set up or ultimate goal doesn't allow one. However, by stringing together a bunch of our 1/8 to 1/2 (one is pushing 1 acre) we encourage deer usage. The key to our success is that we keep making the plots better for the whitetail deer...meaning we do everything to them with them in mind and us as a second thought. Meaning we strive to keep access points in and out of the plots limited, this helps the deer in that they don't have to be on guard 360degrees, they know if danger is coming it's coming from the 2 or 3 certain spots one can access them (without busting through brush/undergrowth). Some of the ways we use to accomplish this is hinge cutting around the edges, planting shrubs or bushes and possibly planting screening items like Forage Sorghum or Egyptian Wheat. This also helps us strategically hunt the trails leading into the plots. Another reason I don't feel we have too many is that in comparison we'll never beat out the 80 acre crop field down the road in pure food attractant...but we can beat them on making that old buck feel secure while he eats in the early season and then checks for does come the rut (all taking place during legal hours!). *The buck I shot this past season didn't have a care in the world as he fed on acrons near our one food plot for 25 minutes before I shot him...if he's 100% at ease you know you've made the area seem very safe! If my dream of even operating 20+ acres ever comes to be...I will have a destination plot of pretty good size for pure tonage of food, but I'll be hunting the many small 1/4-1 acre winding and odd shaped ones I put in between the bedding areas and the big food plot. I believe as long as you make a plan and base it around will it be attractive to deer it's hard to have too many food plots...but that is just my opinion. I need to stop because this is what I love talking about, plots and land manipulation addict right here.
Also Dan you have to know we not only hinge access trails into our food plots, we hinge trails connecting them as well! We try to make the deer feel extremely safe moving from spot to spot...even if that means a lot of leg work on our part (shoot we aren't close to completing everything we'd like to and we don't have a ton of land). If you get a chance check out Whitetail Ambush Secrets...and if you choose to join you'll get to see some amazing tactics on creating plots, trails and bedding areas like you've never seen before. Jim, Jake and Randy are some of the most knowledgeable guys when it comes to land manipulation anywhere!
Hey Dan, maybe I missed this, but the is the area around you planted to crops now, and if so what? In some of the pics I've seen of your radish/turnip plot I saw lots of trees, but wondering what else is there?
