For the mechanical guys

Blade edge retention should be added to that #2 for sure and I made the assumption most would include it in their mind.

 

My blade only needs to hold an edge for about .05 seconds as it's slicing through an animal.

As for Noodles experience with the DoubelCross - you shot a deer in the shoulder and then shot a tree. Not sure how either of those was the fault of the broadhead.

 

Oh I get that, but a blade that after a few inches in is now ripping or acting as a serrated blade doesn't slice as much as it pushes through though. Doesn't make a massive difference but it can depending on shot placement.

I always appreciate your take on heads JZ, unlike many that choose mechanical over fixed (or you have not sure actually what you're shooting this year) you fully admit there are negatives that come with it, and positives. The hilarity is in those that believe both don't exist. It's always refreshing.

 

Simply put, I shoot mech heads because I like the big holes. the massive damage and the security of a wide cut. I know a lot can go wrong, but I have not had that happen to me and it is a risk I take I guess. So with that said, I am a fan of Rage heads but I am also willing to look at other heads that are more damaging

 

Man, how come no one is bringing up swhackers

In Venatione Veritas

 

I see what you did there, lol

 

Good question. I hear 2 sides to that head like others

 

In the end the biggest difference is mechanicals will shine when you hit back more than a fixed, and fixed will shine when you impact bone (any bone really). By me choosing a fixed single bevel two blade head - I am sacrificing that if I hit them back (guts), I'm most likely dealing with a longer till death time than a mechanical might and blood trails could be different but again that is dependent on what is actually cut. Anyone pretending there is a head that will shine the best under both situations is just not true...however I will always argue when I make a mistake and hit guts, that deer is still going to die, it just might not be as quick, or leave same blood trail depending what actually get hits.

Also your last line of "more damaging" is vastly too broad use of a term which needs refined before someone could answer - otherwise they're just being ignorant attempting to answer.

 

That buck was maybe 25 yards max and I was pushing appx 430 gr at about 270fps. At the very least I should have blown through that front side. The blade pinched shut and immediately snapped on an animal they were allegedly designed specifically to kill. That should never happen. And as I said, I have no problems with a regular SpitFire design- their blade tips being positioned much further forward and more in line with the point negate the pinch effect. I have killed a few deer with regular SpitFires and they perform very well.

The tree thing was just funny, but served to further illustrate what any mechanical engineer should have spotted and pointed out in the DoubleCross design process - you hit something hard on any sharp angle and the blades will pinch shut and/or break. If I had been using the regular SpitFires I am pretty sure the blade would have opened. Not that one of those would have killed the tree either.

 

I am not sure I want to wade into this discussion, but I might with some caveats. I will only compare mechanical design to mechanical design. Mechanical vs fix is a whole different discussion.
I won’t go in talking about hybrids either as they are also a different ball of wax.

Here is goes.

Rear deploying heads tend to be all or nothing. When they work they work spectacularly. When they don’t they are epic failures.
Here is what they have going for them:
~ large entrance holes put blood on the ground quick
~ generally they have a large cutting diameter, that when it does penetrate vitals sufficiently it kills quickly

Here what they don’t have going for them:
~ anything over about 1.5 tends to get-terrible penetration. You need a lot more arrow weight and energy ( via the bow or from you pulling more weight ) to ensure consistent penetration.


~ blade retention is hit or miss. Some like a SevR have simple ( and consistent ) retention systems and some have more complex systems of parts that may fail in some situations.

~ rear deploy heads structural integrity varies wildly from brand to brand and head to head
~ this is biggest con in my book. Most have horrible blade angles because of the cutting diameter that they are trying to accomplish.


Personally summery: there are very few rear deploying heads that I have enough confidence in to use in a variety of situations and on different game.
Too many heads have features that eliminate their use for me right from the start.
If they are flimsy, have collars or clips for retention, if they are over 1.5 cutting diameter, if they have a shallow blade angle ….they are all ruled out in my book.


Over the top heads:

These heads tend to be mechanically simpler then many rear deploying heads. They have simpler retention system. They tend to be more consistent in performance then rear deploying heads. You will see on average way better penetration. Your more likely to get a pass though with over the deploying head verses a rear deploying head.
Pros:
-simple design, that’s easy to incorporate a third or even forth bade
- simple blade retention
- smaller entrance holes and full size exits give better penetration
~generally they have decent blade angle


Negatives
~ the blade/ ferrule attachments are generally a weak point
~ long ferrules are needed to incorporate the blades. Sometimes this tends to be a weak point on hard impact shots. Bone for example


Personal summery
Over the top mechanicals are very consistent. You generally will see pass though on deer size game. You generally will not have the spectacular blood on ground from entry wounds that you see with rear deploying heads, however you will make up for it with an exit wound. For deer size game and specifically whitetails from a tree stand I think they are better choice because of the increased penetration and better chance of an exit hole.
Where you may have issues is if the head has larger the 1.5 or 1.75 diameters and or four blades…your asking a lot from your set ups to get it though. Two bladed over top head penetrate like crazy even with larger diameters, say 2.0 inches. However they will also tend to have weaker ferrules because of the needed length.

 

as his teammate, I can attest that @Justin isn't shooting any heads this year...

(and neither am I...)

 

LOL!!!

 

well thought out and articulated.

 

No, I actually bought them at a pro shop. Same day/place I bought my Mission Ballistic.

 

Understood.

I shot one deer with a DoubleCross and then went back to something else. Nuff said.

 

And I have typically shot too far back on deer and that's where the mech shines for me. and what I meant by damage.

 

So you are using it in the sense of soft tissue impacting only, especially intestines or guts. Makes sense.

 

FTR, the communication and education which actually happens in such threads here vs a place like AT is incredible. EVERY single such thread just blows up before it gets started on topics like this. This is why I folks should come here vastly more.