I finally ran the numbers on my arrows this evening. Full length FMJ 500's with TrueFlight 3 Fletch feathers, 200 grain points and 100 gr brass inserts. FOC = 23.8% These look more like bludgeons than arrows. They fly good. They hit where I aim out to 20yds. (When I do my part right. Bow is quiet. What I need to do now is order those 200gr Muzzy Phantoms and start practicing with them. Thanks Russ. Bobby
Awesome Bobby!! Them numbers are my goal as well!! He sure Is a big help, I can't thank Russ enough for the Info he's given me on FMJ's and FOC. His phone will be ringing again before I order mine up.
That is some serious weight forward! Sounds like they are working well for you, my arrows for my longbow are 340 FMJ's .. I loaded them (29 inches long) with 100 grain inserts and 125 heads.. will be shooting them for the first time tonight! cant wait. Bobby how many grains per inch are those 500's? my 340's are 11.1
Troy, the 500's are 9.1 gpi Jeff, if you were shooting as low lbs as I am you would need the FOC. I guarantee you one thing, if you tried it, you would like it. I am only pulling probably 39/40 lbs, and my arrows are smacking my target at 20yds. Confidence on my part.
Ok let me get this right. If you go extreme FOC you would need a stiffer spined arrow than lets say just for a 125 gr. tip???
This Is my take on It. Traditional bows are pretty slow so lets do the next best thing and go for the momentum part of It. I know for a fact that the more weight your arrows are (with the right set up) the better penetration their going to have. Russ explained this to me some and It makes allot of sense. With high FOC your pulling a chain thru a hole Instead of pushing It through a hole, make sense? Which Is going to penetrate better or easier? Yes your arrows might be a tad slower but they hit their Intended spot like a train.
I haven't jumped on the EFOC bandwagon either, just haven't had a chance to research it. I know a lot of the top tournament archers are going that route and that is what interests me. I know O.L. believes in it and uses it for his flight shooting, which is all about efficiency. If there is a quantifiable difference, accuracy wise, I'm all for it. Damn, something new to research!
With EFOC the arrow stabilizes faster out of the bow therefore retaining more energy which in turn maintains more momentium down range. It is always best to have the head pull the shaft than the shaft pushing the head as when the shaft does the pushing you are loosing energy at a fast rate. Go over to Tradgang and read Dr Asby's reports he puts it in writting better than I can ever dream of.
Lol Jeff. Put It this way my old arrow set up was working flawlessly, 90%+ were pass throughs with a big 3 blade BH being shot out of a 60 to 73lb recurve. I'm the type of guy that If I can better my set up without getting all teched out I'm going to do It. My new set up has a much bigger cutting diameter then my other set up but Its heavier, guess who got the most penetration? That's what FOC will do for you Jeff even with a low poundage bow. I proved It! My dad did this same thing years ago. He shot a very heavy BH, 300 grains I think It was. He was out penetrating his buddy's who were shooting compounds. They filled up a five gallon pail full of sand to see who could get the best penetration, he won that one hands down with his Big Horn recurve.
If there is I have not found it yet and I have arrows up to 30% FOC. The only complaints where from the guys who where pulling the arrows out of the 3d targets:d Plus of course all the animals I have shot where not that impressed either:d No not really when you think about it if the arrow stabilizes faster then it is also maintaining a little more speed. I have arrows that weighed 409-411 gr's that had EFOC of 22%. The trick is to find a a shaft that will give you the best EFOC and that will still spine correctly without overdoing it in terms of GPI of the shaft. I always start with a head weight including insert then build the arrow around the head. At times it is a pain in the butt but the end result has always been worth it.
Jeff, stop using me as an "example". Just kiddin'. I know very little about the EFOC stuff. I know what I have read and I know what Russ has told me. I know this too. I had a 2016 with regular insert, same feathers, 200gr field point, at 30.5" length (compared to 31.5 FMJ) and I immediately noticed more accuracy, more speed, and more "thump" as Russ calls it. I can see the difference. If I could get away with it (and afford other arrows to experiment with), I would possibly try to get more EFOC. Bobby
I'm not knowledgeable about this stuff but I'll stick with my arrow ( 9-11 grains per pound of bow weight) pushing the broadhead.. Big broadheads (talking about size) with a light (physical weight) arrow is a bad combination for hunting large game. This is based on years of shooting animals and having already tried a few things over the years. woodsman
Jeff The arrows where GT Ultralight Pro's with a 175gr tip. I did post some test results a year or so ago on HNI. Comparing light low FOC arrows against the Heavier EFOC arrows. The lighter arrow was faster out of the gate but lost a lot more speed compared to the heavier EFOC arrows down range and the drop rate was greater with the light arrow as well. I did shoot through a crono at various distances up to 60 yards to get the results using a Black Ice with a scope, the bow was tuned for each arrow set up. I advised Bobby what to use to get the EFOC he has now using the shaft he wanted namely the FMJ's, could I have gotten his FOC higher yes but not with the FMJ's As far as KE goes to me KE is a mute point because KE is measured at the bow, I am more concerned about momentium down range. Bow companies started to quote KE and Speed as a sales pitch, we all know there are a lot of people out there that want the latest greatest, fastest bow there is, then when they get it and change from IBO specs and shoot it through the crono they are dissapointed because the adds said this bow will shoot XXXfps and in the real world that never happens. Trad guys dont give a tinkers cuss how fast their bow is which is why you hardly ever see speeds in the advertisement of Trad gear
