Ethics....???

I am quite sure this will raise some heated debate, but thats what these things are for right??

In a recent blog post concerning mechanical vs fixed blades, a comment was made to address the point of distance, and it became a scource of debate. In that, 6 inch groups at 70 and even 90 yards is the ideal distance to have a "well tuned" bow shooting fixed blade broadheads.

I have heard these types of distances before as relevent bow shooting distances. We have all attempted to poke the Elk or Moose in a 3D shoot....and most loose arrows because.....who the hell has a 90 yard pin???????

But as it pertains to the thread...is it ethical to take a 70 or 90 yard shot with a bow at a live animal, regardless of "proficiency"??? Assuming the animals response to the release of the arrow??

 

Well I guess we can start with this, and go from there.

Ethics, sometimes known as philosophical ethics, ethical theory, moral theory, and moral philosophy, is a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending and recommending concepts of right and wrong conduct, often addressing disputes of moral diversity.[1] The term comes from the Greek word ἠθικός ethics from ἦθος ethos, which means "custom, habit". The superfield within philosophy known as axiology includes both ethics and aesthetics and is unified by each sub-branch's concern with value.[2] Philosophical ethics investigates what is the best way for humans to live, and what kinds of actions are right or wrong in particular circumstances.


This could get pretty deep, but at least anyone who replies to the thread will at least have a solid understanding of the definition of what ethical really means. I personally do not possess the ability to make a shot like that, so I would even try it without some serious training on my part. I'm sure there are plenty of bow hunters out there who do possess this ability.

Lets take a look at the west coast guys from the mountains 40 yard, and even 50 yard shots seem to be somewhat of a regular occurrence in the west coast mountains while hunting elk, so with that being said todays bows, and equipment have come a long way with regard to speed, kinetic energy, hyper static shock, and terminal ballistics.

I would say that given the right circumstance, 100% proficiency, and the proper equipment/set up a long shot such as 70 yards is within some bow hunters ability. And so therein lyes the question of ethics, leaving that decision ultimately up to the person making that type of shot.

 

Egoism is an ethical perspective that focuses strictly on the 'WIFM' philosophy ('What's in it for me' and/or I'll do whatever is necessary to get what I want - i.e.: the end justifies the means).

HUNTERS want to get as close to their game as possible to make sure the shot is successful.
ARCHERS want to see how far away from their target they can get and still make a successful shot.

The farthest shot I've ever taken at a deer was 47 yards... and it was successful (the deer was in a field, relaxed and feeding - diminishing the possibility of the alerted 'drop at the shot' movement at the sound of the release). I knew I could make the shot as I had practiced shooting at 60 yards (Archer syndrome). However, I would seriously question myself before ever shooting that far at a deer in the woods because of all the 'stuff' that could happen (Hunter syndrome).

Now... with all that being stated - archery is a 'close in' sport, and that is the reason most hunters pick up a bow. We [hunters] want to see our target in its own element and witness nature at its finest - up close and personal.

 

A simple no.

 

By removing this from the equation the answer for me would always be no. An ethical shot is one which the chance to harvest cleanly greatly outweighs the risk of injuring or having a death but no recovery.

Ethical range varies from location the hunt is taking place and the skill level of the hunter. Some guys won't go beyond 25, 35 or 45 yards...not because they can't hit their target but because they themselves don't feel 100% confident.

 

Holy crap!! You've been waiting for someone to ask this type of question for a minute!! That is a valid, lucid, and credible response.
Tynimiller will answer part of this in a later thread, but having described ethics as a social behavior, because without the risk of others impression ethics couldn't exist. Nor could integrity but that's another thread....eliminating all other factors beyond the control of the hunter and given 100% proficiency, it's a simple matter of ballistics???but we don't live in a vacuum....all those variables exist in EVERY situation... As we contemplate our own ability, we assume a certain amount of risk that the other affecting variables will NOT,in fact, affect our shot placement. It's my opinion that in almost all situations with archery tackle, anything beyond 50 yards is irresponsible, when dealing with a thinking breathing quarry....

 

If you can be effective at it by all means. I wont probably ever live of hunt somewhere in which I needed to shoot at 90 yards. Defeats the purpose of me getting up close with the animal I am hunting!

 

Regardless of how accurate someone is or how much they've practiced a shot at that distance, a live animal can move much to far during that long of arrow flight that could lead to a very bad shot. In short, no, that's not a distance people should be taking live game from.

 

I have to say that given the right circumstances, 70 yards is absolutely ethical to a significant percentage of bow hunters...assuming they are practiced at that range and beyond. 90s quite a stretch but there are plenty of guys very capable of it.

I know I would take a 50 yard shot without hesitation- assuming the conditions were right. I'm practiced and comfortable out to 60, and trying to extend that even more.

 

I can shoot a dove out of season at that range .... is that not ethical?

 

50 yards I can see, but 70-90?? Making a shot at a target for practice and taking a shot on a live animal that could move is just irresponsible in my opinion. Take a whitetail deer for instance, the longer it takes an arrow to get there the more time they have to move from the shot. They could potentially jump your shot and could end up seriously injured by being gut shot, hit in the leg, hit in the hind quarter, hit in the neck, etc.,. At that point it's not about being accurate or taking the right angle, it's about animal response and too much uncontrolled risk. I just don't see the need, wait for a closer shot and try again.

 

Tony ! SSS! bro

 

Absolutely not.

 

MY react one pin goes out to like 110 yards on my Element but I don't even practice out past 70. I rarely ever shoot past 50 just practicing. I used to shoot out to 70 a lot but I guess I've gotten lame in my old age and just don't feel the need for it anymore to show off or otherwise. I'm comfortable out to 50 yards, if needed but will likely never take a shot at another deer past 40.

To answer the question, no...I do not believe 70-90 yard shots are ethical. I've known too many crack shots that lost deer that far...too many things to go wrong that are completely unpredictable.

 

If your equipment is the best of the best and tuned the best while shooting the best broadheads and you can hit a bulls eye at 1,000 yards, you still should not shoot at a deer past 50 or maybe 60 yards. The animal can move to far in that amount of time. There is no way to practice or compensate for a movement that may or may not happen. You owe it to the deer not to shoot that far out.

 

I think the body language and the way the animal is acting is far more important than the range. If the deer or whatever is casually walking through a field feeding then I feel more comfortable taking longer shots. Even at 20 yards a deer that is alert or acting edgy can be tricky to get a good shot on.

Even with all that depending on situation I don't like taking a shot much over 40 yards on a open field setting and maybe 25 in the woods. Much farther in the woods and it always seems like there's that one twig you forgot to cut while trimming shooting lanes ha. I try not to criticize someone else's shot choice because I wasn't there and don't know how it all played out before the shot or how well prepared someone else is.

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I see your points, and I'm not necessarily saying I would. But I've seen videos of guys take shots on mulies at like 80-100 yards where wind was right and the sound never even reached the deer. He didn't flinch. I've also seen plenty of deer jump strings at less than 30.

I don't know that there's a definitive right or wrong...if you're really good and the conditions are right, you know what to do.

 

I really appreciate the feedback here...though most of the time I am jovial and take life "not all that serious". Theres a few topics that I feel hunters should be passionate about. Ethical treatment of the game we chase should be paramount for all. I am absolutley confident in my abilty to make a shot at 100 yards if i cared to practiced ...on an inanimate target....and even if i practiced that shot and had a 2 inch group for a decade...i wouldnt attempt that shot on a P&Y or even WR record animal....id figure out how to get closer next time. because i am also confident in my ability to HUNT an animal. Thanks guys/gals...keep it going if we could and bring up more topics!!! Baiting?

 

Regardless of proficiency? Heck no! Proficient at those yardages? Maybe. Proficient at much higher distances? Yes.

And, I don't have a 90yd pin but, I have a 90yd mark on my tape.


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Forgive my ignorance...but....what are you saying??? That your single pin is sighted in at 90?? and that youre proficient at much higher yardages than 90??