For you guys who live in states where you have to earn your buck tag, here are a few questions. 1. I assume this is a law implemented to drive the deerherd to a closer sex ratio. Is this correct. 2. Have you seen a better sex ratio because of the law? 3. What all exactly does the law entail. I know here in the parts of OK where I hunt the sex ratio is skewed badly. I have heard some reports of up to 15does/buck. I doubt that a law would ever be changed here due to the cultural aspect of the hunting in Ok,but I am just curious if the earn a buck program works. Thanks
In Wisconsin I believe they are getting the deer numbers too low with EAB... Especially on public land. The rule was not implemented as a ratio tool, by the DNR's own admission it is being used as a punishment to force hunters into bringing the population to where the department wants it. There are some serious failures with our EAB... 1st off, over 40% of the deer shot that earn the buck tag are actually bucks... You see in Wisconsin, any antlerless deer will earn your buck tag. over 40% are button bucks. I think the main reason this number is so high is because the does kick the button bucks out of there group when they go into rut, and the B-bucks are wandering around the woodlots stupid as our gun season starts, and every body is looking to earn the buck tag... Another problem is that it makes kids pass on deer.. They should be able to enjoy hunting without these restrictions. Especially now that they have knocked our population down.
Word to ALL of the above. I hunt that WI public land.. does' are not common where these places are.. and I refuse to take a button just to earn a tag. Deer populations are still higher in certain realms of the state.. but the public land of extreme southeastern Wisconsin are NOT one of them.
Wow, I honestly expected a different answer than the previous 2, maybe it is not qute as good of a program as it sounds like it would be.
The only problem with that though Jeff, is that land is devided mainly up into quarter, half, and full sections. None of these encompass an average deer's homerange. Maybe the full sections will hold does year round but not likely IMO. I defiately tried to do all I could this year by taking 5 does off of a half section, but who knows how the neighbor's program works? Another problem statewide here in Oklahoma is the fact that people just do not understand that taking every buck they see on a piece of property, regardless of age can be a bad decision. Doe kills are very limited in the state. Looking at past records the average buck killed is 1.5-2.5 years of age. I would defiantely lump Ok in the "If its brown its down" category. I am fortunate enough to have landed a job on a contiguous 30,000 acres. I plan on surveying the herd and if management is needed trying to help with getting the landowner permits to take does. I am 99% sure that this will be neccessary. This could lead to a buch of free doe hunts for some of the guys around here if they care to come hunt.
GMMAT, do you practice QDM or any other forms of deer management where you hunt? I'm with you on the earn a buck. I can not for the life of me why some people are A-ok with shooting two or three 1.5 year old bucks a year but then say they just won't shoot a doe. Seems to me that any hunter worth his salt knows that it is much more difficult to harvest a 4.5 year old matriarch than it is to harvest a 1.5 year old ignorant buck.
We do not have EAB in GA but we are allowed 10 antlerless deer and only 2 antlered. AND the 2nd buck must be 4 points or better on one side.
Oklahoma is somwhat similar in that we are allowed 4 antlerless and 2 antlered (regarless of size) and you can also use the 2 buck tags to use on does. BUT this is for archery only. Gun hunters I believe are allowed 2 antlerless and 1 antlered I believe, muzz i the same thing. My biggest concern is that people in this state do not shoot the does. I truly think you could give em 20 antlerless tags and the same amount of does will be taken as there are now.
I know you have some good sources Jeff but I really have a hard time believing this. In my opinion my doe to buck ratio Is much, much higher then 3:1. I'm doing my part In my area, most of the gunners are not. People have It drilled In their head that they shouldn't shoot a doe. Shooting a buck regardless of the size Is better then any doe. My area Is full of uneducated hunters.
From what I understand people will take road kills found on the road and register them to get their buck tags too.
No doubt after I do alot of deer number counts and such (to the point where I think I have a grasp on the numbers, ratios etc....), I will try to get the landowner's permission, ( I highly doubt she will have a problem w/ it) and get some DNR help. I am sure they would be happy to do some spotlight counts for next to nothing, or better yet, do our own w/ permission from them as spotlighting is illegal here. Then they will issue a prescribed number of doe tags for the property. Could make for a ton of doe whacking but I do love me some doe whacking.
I'm thinking we have about 900,000 deer In Mn. What I have In my area I haven't a clue, no Info on that. I'm not sure what the ratio Is but 3:1 seems way off from what one would think. Certain areas are different then others too, depends what the gunners do every fall. I know this much though that many do not shoot doe's In my little area.
I'm thinking I saw right around 8 different bucks give or take this last fall. One 3.5, two 2.5's, and five 1.5's. One 2.5 and 4 of the 1.5's I saw got shot during gun season In the section I hunt In, I have no Idea on the other bucks. Doe sightings were very high but I don't log this stuff down. If I was to take a guess I saw In the neighborhood of 80 adult doe sightings. I have no clue on how many times I saw the same doe's though which I'm sure occurred allot. As far as I know there were 2 doe's (one adult doe) shot In the section I hunt In, my doe fawn was one of them. A BB was also taken by the neighbors. What was shot a mile away In another section I haven't a clue, I'm just going by what was shot In my woods and In the surrounding woods of my neighbors In this section. I know all of the landowners In the section my woods Is In, 3 of us own It all. I know for a fact I didn't see every buck In my woods or every doe for that matter either. The doe to buck ratio probably Isn't as high as I think but I know It's no where near what It use to be here.
I don't care what the ratio Is In other places of the state, all I care about Is my area. The Mn DNR don't have a clue either on what the population Is here, they don't give out extra doe tags here all that often. So I could care less what their numbers are for my part of the state being they don't have a clue!! I'd bet most years here that 70% to 80% of the deer that are taken are young bucks. That's what happens when they don't give out extra tags. You don't think I know this?? Come on Jeff. Lol!! A few possibly. Many? No.
Steve, I'm guessing that the Buck : Doe ratio in your area isn't as bad as it may seem. Honestly. You are only allowed 1 deer a year, be it a buck or doe. I'm allowed 7 does, and 1 buck. In my area (225) we are an "intensive harvest unit" due to too many does. If the buck to doe ratio was really bad in your area, you would also be in the intensive harvest area to fill a quota I'd assume. However, another leading cause of a low buck : doe ratio in general (Minnesota) is that the rifle season is generally during peak rut. Most people here are fine with taking a small buck, than a doe. ...then again, you know how I feel about the MNDNR
The Mn DNR thinks they know what the population Is In all of the areas, they really don't have a clue (at least not In my area). We need a 3 deer per area quota around here (2 doe's and 1 buck)!! Why you ask?? Because we have a hell of allot more anterless deer here then the wonderful Mn DNR thinks we have. Then why did you just write (bolded out part) what you did above If you don't believe everything the Mn DNR says?
I guess I'm assuming again, but they should know the buck to do ratio in all of the areas, after all, it's there job...and not too hard of a task, or concept to grasp. I'm a second year bio student and we're already learning it:d Also, you'd think that the MNDNR would WANT to give out more permits, and there must be a reason they aren't. The MNDNR is all about the money, you know that. You'd think they'd want those extra 2-3 permits/hunter, if at all feasible. I'm going to try and dig up a population map of deer in MN. Interested in what my and your areas deer population actually is. That may be another reason you don't get more than one, OVERALL low deer population.
I agree Kyle that they should know but I've lost a allot of faith In the Mn DNR through out the years.
um... intesive harvest is up to 5 deer, not 7... Hope you didn't shoot 7 last year....Unless you have some kind of Landowner's permits or something to add a couple to your number? Either way, if you get the bow, gun and muzzy tags with all the bonuses it looks like an accordion going into your wallet.:d I hunt in 175, and we've bounced from lottery to managed to intensive back to managed over the past few years... I agree, the MNDNR isn't exactly the greatest at figuring out the herd. Schultzy, where do you hunt? I was looking at last year's map and the entire SW part of the state is lottery. But isn't that kind of normal? I mean, historically, the majority of the deer herd is north of I 94. More of a forest herd than a farmland herd. I've read somewhere (Pioneer Press, I believe) that the SW herd numbers are down over the last few years as well, which makes the guys in St. Paul say "See, we know what we're doing."... TOTAL herd goes from 1.3 million to 1 million/900,000 and they think they're friggin' geniuses. I also just read in Outdoor News that WI has eliminated EAB for '09. They feel that it wasn't accomplishing the goal of lowering doe numbers, just eliminating deer without antlers. Maybe it's not such a great idea after all...
