Does this concern anyone else

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Bryan Jeffrey, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    How did they attempt to kill everybody in the truck? With flash grenades, bean bags and gas rounds? All of which are less than lethal means of bringing a situation under control.
     
  2. Bowhunter352

    Bowhunter352 Weekend Warrior

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    Ok I wasn't there idk what was shot into the vehicle.. Y'all justify the gov and I'll keep my opinion and belief that they are a bunch of crooks. I have cows to hay and other things that some of yall no nothing about to attend to so if I offended anyone by my choice of words o well I'm just speaking my opinion take it how you want to
     
  3. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

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    So, you don't know what was shot at the truck. And, you think they owned the land. Seems like a shaky position to base an opinion on. You might want to grab some facts before the pitchfork next time.

    If someone is going to make a living off of Federal ground, they better understand that things may not stay the same as it was for their grandfather. Things change. They can buy their own land.

    By the way, I voted Republican in the last two Presidential elections.
     
  4. Bowhunter352

    Bowhunter352 Weekend Warrior

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    Whooooo carrrrreeeeesssssss my opinion and that's how I feel so if you don't like don't read it...rock on with what y'all do and how yall feel about this corrupt worthless government and I'll do the same... Maybe yall need to worry about what I say and worry a little more about the things that are going on this post want about me it was about a hard working man that lost his life over his belief maybe yall need to take notes and fight for what you believe in instead of laying down and letting a bunch legalized thief's stick it to u
     
  5. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

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    So, the facts don't concern you. Got it. Who cares. Moving on.
     
  6. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    You think being meek is weak? Try being meek for a week.

    Not everyone who is quiet is weak and not everyone speaking is strong.
     
  7. uncljohn

    uncljohn Weekend Warrior

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    The only thieves were the cattle ranchers feeding their herds off of my tax dollars for free. I hate free-loaders who mooch off the system.
     
  8. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

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    I don't think a lot of people take the time to consider this point.

    The Bundy's had been grazing on Federal land with no permission and no fees paid. After, being fined repeatedly. Even those that do pay grazing fees are only paying the government about 7% of what the comparable fees would be on private land. That seems like an incredibly good deal to me. And yet, the Feds are crooks?

    If you want to travel across several states to go protest that kind of crap, you probably don't have the sense to not get killed.

    Again, those ranchers all have the same rights we all have, go buy your own land and enjoy that freedom.
     
  9. Bowhunter352

    Bowhunter352 Weekend Warrior

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    Think about that free loader the next time y'all sit your soft asses down and eat a piece of steak or a hamburger.. Yall probably know nothing of hard work.. You can have your corrupt **** *** government I'll take them hard working ranchers and farmers.. You don't mind them using your hard earned tax money to take a vacation or buy some stupid new toy but a man can't let his cows that yall sorry ****ers probably eat eat grass yall have life ****ed up..its all in the pussification of America.. That's how I feel about it and if you don't like **** OFF.. And don't worry about booting me off this forum I'll gladly remove myself from this..And I do own my own land all 119 acres of it
     
  10. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I buy my beef every year from a 4-h auction at the local fair that is raised by a kid on their parents farm, which is all on land they own. According to what I find, only about 3% of the cattle used to produce our beef supply is grazed on federal lands. I highly doubt Bundy and his bunch would pay to own that land if they were given the choice.

    I don't believe the government should own nearly the amount of land they do, but I also don't believe that people should be able to use public land for profit at no cost either.
     
  11. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Dude. Breathe, ease up with the assumptions and accusations. You are probably talking to a collective group that is more anti-big government than most forums you would locate besides extremist group ones.
     
  12. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

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    I live in a farming/ranching community. I own farms. I know hard work. I can bet that I have not eaten beef that was fed grass on Federal land. I eat local corn fed beef that was raised by hardworking cattlemen that own their own ground and pay taxes on it. I would make it a point to not eat beef that was raised by someone that was freeloading on Federal ground.

    Again, you are letting misled assumptions get in the way of those pesky facts.

    I get it, you hate the government. But, that really has nothing to do with those ranchers abusing the use of Federal ground.

    You need a hug....
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  13. Hillbilly Jedi

    Hillbilly Jedi Die Hard Bowhunter

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    There are about three or four topics that should be separated out in this conversation.

    1. The LaVoy's court proceedings for the alleged fire
    2. The shooting of Mr. LaVoy and the "full length video"
    3. Government and the conspiracy theory of them taking land from people

    1. I have very briefly read the linked article relating to the LaVoy's court proceedings so I can't definitively say there is any right or wrong doing from either side from my point of view. I am ignorant to the local or state laws in their area governing fires and legally starting of them on your land. I can say doing what you think is right and doing what is legal is not always the same.

    2. The "full length video" counter in the upper left shows 52 minutes of video when there is 32 minutes approximately shown. I'm not sure what the first 20 minutes are but from that, it's not the "full length". You should be asking yourself why LaVoy initially stopped for law enforcement, then sped off? This was his first mistake. After he drove to the side of the road block, you can see him get out of the truck with his hands up and he's alive. He then puts his hand clearly in his jacket, mistake #2 and then he's dead. Everyone else getting out of the truck exited with their hands up and was taken into custody alive. To base your opinion on what happened in between LaVoy being shot and the others exiting the truck from the video would be a bad idea. There is nothing showing what the other occupants of the vehicle are doing inside the cab of the truck. Remember you just had one person exit the truck and most likely try to produce a weapon to kill you. There are an ENORMOUS number of factors to take into consideration with those people still in the truck and unless you are feet away from them and can see what they are doing and looking into their eyes, you shouldn't make the call on what law enforcement did was right or wrong. From what the video showed, LaVoy was not murdered.

    I work in law enforcement and I work in a jail. If there is one thing I can promise you from both the criminal side and the law enforcement side is..... YOU WILL ALWAYS HERE THE SIDE OF THE STORY THAT BEST DEPICTS THE SIDE THAT IS TELLING IT. Believe me I am not saying criminals always lie and cops always tell the truth. But based on my training and 12 years experience, the inmates that keep me employed lie even when they are caught on video. But we aren't perfect and over my 12 years, have had several members of my organization fired for misconduct. They broke the law or very unfavorably represented our organization so we are better off without them.

    3. There are conspiracy theories on just about anything you can think of. Choose to believe those you wish.

    It's human nature for people to want to believe what someone is telling them is the truth. Especially if they are familiar with them, have things in common, similar ideals and beliefs. I won't judge anyone from taking one side or the other. I may disagree with some thoughts or comments but they are yours to have. Respect each others opinions, beliefs and concerns; make educated decisions based on what information you have and don't forget to look at things from a different perspective sometimes.
     
  14. Bryan Jeffrey

    Bryan Jeffrey Weekend Warrior

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    good post.. just a fyi. it wasnt lavoy who was imprisoned. it was the hammonds. and the issue with that was they were federally charged tried and convicted. then a few years latter another judge tacked on 4 more years to there time for the same charge after they served there time. This is double jeopardy.
     
  15. ultramax

    ultramax Grizzled Veteran

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    I thought we stole the land from the Indians fair and square ! Funny how we forget that.
     
  16. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    No Natives were at the occupation of the bird sanctuary building. I appreciate the natives perspective as well, but this had nothing to do with that.
     
  17. Shocker99

    Shocker99 Grizzled Veteran

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    Hash tag
     
  18. Hillbilly Jedi

    Hillbilly Jedi Die Hard Bowhunter

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    As I said I am a bit ignorant with all of this so thanks for pointing that out and you are correct; it was the Hammond's regarding the fire, not LaVoy. I'm interested to find out more about the 2nd conviction(s) and sentence. I think the second time, the Hammond's were charged with different crime sections of the states penal code, even though it was the same incident. I can't say whether it's legal or not at this point but I'll post what I find if it's worth while.
     
  19. Hillbilly Jedi

    Hillbilly Jedi Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Here's some more information I found about the 2nd sentencing of the Hammond's from a Washington Post article which actually seems, for once in the media, to be fairly unbias......

    U.S. District Judge Michael R. Hogan first sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months in prison and Steven Hammond to one year and one day. Judge Hogan said, "It just would not be - would not meet any idea I have of justice, proportionality." I think this is a comment on the minimum five year sentence. However..... Judge Hogan's sentence was overruled by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit which then imposed the full, and minimum, five year sentence under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.

    Based on this I would not call the Hammond's sentencing as "double jeopardy". An appeal to a higher court can work both ways regarding a sentence that is believed to be too "heavy" or one that is too "light". Either side of the court process, defense or prosecution, can appeal to a higher court. I see inmates sentences adjusted, for lack of a better term, quite often. Most of the time it is made shorter, however it seems in this case it was made longer.

    From what I've read so far, I find it a stretch to call the Hammond's "terrorists" in the true sense of the term, but I don't know what the act details as "terrorism".

    Here's the link to the article if anyone wants to read the whole thing.
    The mysterious fires that led to the Bundy clan’s Oregon standoff - The Washington Post
     
  20. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I would have loved to be in that courtroom for the Hammonds original trial. In everything I have read on the case, I just can't find anything that justifies either the charges or punishment.
     

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