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Do you believe in "Divine Intervention"?

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by LittleChief, Apr 16, 2014.

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  1. Muzzy Man

    Muzzy Man Grizzled Veteran

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    So how would you feel if you believed God orchestrated you putting Max down to save your neighbor's lives when He could have chosen another means to save them?
     
    Muzzy Man, Apr 17, 2014
    #81
  3. chopayne

    chopayne Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Spot can you answer questions more directly? You've got to realize there are many speculative people out there and stating jess Christ is a credible source seems a bit ridiculous to those who don't believe in the bible.

    I don't even know what your sentence means.
     
    chopayne, Apr 17, 2014
    #82
  4. chopayne

    chopayne Die Hard Bowhunter

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    The biggest thing is that I don't think it matters how I feel. He is god and he will do as he pleases. If it's out of my control then I can only accept it right?

    If God chose another means to save his neighbors then good for the neighbors. And yes if God is all powerful I would think he could've chosen a less tragic way to inform the neighbors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
    chopayne, Apr 17, 2014
    #83
  5. SPOTnSTALK

    SPOTnSTALK Grizzled Veteran

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    Read what Muzzy wrote above.
    If you seek you will find.
    Knock and the door will be opened to you.
    Ask and you shall receive.
     
    SPOTnSTALK, Apr 17, 2014
    #84
  6. chopayne

    chopayne Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I guess you're going to keep quoting things all day
     
    chopayne, Apr 17, 2014
    #85
  7. SPOTnSTALK

    SPOTnSTALK Grizzled Veteran

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    What do you need here?
     
    SPOTnSTALK, Apr 17, 2014
    #86
  8. Muzzy Man

    Muzzy Man Grizzled Veteran

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    Some can accept His ways... some cannot. Some doubt His existence because He doesn't do things the way they thought He should... or disclose everything. He tells us what we need to know... that's enough for me... but I am not all that smart as anyone readings these forums can attest.
     
    Muzzy Man, Apr 17, 2014
    #87
  9. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    I have a feeling that question was actually for me. Honestly, I don't believe for a minute that God orchestrated the events of the past five months in order to have me walk over to my neighbors house yesterday afternoon. Why don't I believe that? I would have trouble believing that God would get that involved in such minute details of our relatively insignificant lives. If I were going to attribute this to "divine intervention", I'd be more inclined to think that maybe I got a "nudge" yesterday afternoon to go and get that remote. It would kind of be a way of his taking something bad and making something good come of it.

    To answer your question directly, though, if I did believe that God put us all through the events of the past five months, culminating with Max having to be put down, I think my first reaction would be anger. But then again, if I really believed that I think that I'd sit back and wonder what the real purpose and plan was and just accept all of this as his will.

    As to the debate over God's omnipotence coupled with our free will, I don't see any conflict there. The bible makes it quite clear that we have to choose to be saved. That's the big stipulation. It says that we have to choose him. That's what he wants. Sure, he could make us love him, but do you really think he wants followers who are forced to follow him? Think about it. What joy would there be in being married to someone who only wanted to be with you because you forced them to? Do you want a slave or a wife who loves you and wants to be with you? That's kind of the reason I see our being allowed to choose our own path in life.

    After all, the bible says that the "church" is the "bride of Christ". He doesn't want a slave for a bride any more than you or I.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
    LittleChief, Apr 17, 2014
    #88
  10. Tony

    Tony Legendary Woodsman

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    Well said, Johnny... :)
     
    Tony, Apr 17, 2014
    #89
  11. chopayne

    chopayne Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I don't see how your explanation solves the dilemma of omnipotence and freewill. Are you saying that faith somehow solves that problem? I don't see how it does.
     
    chopayne, Apr 17, 2014
    #90
  12. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    I didn't say that at all. All I said was that my thoughts on on the "dilemma" of omnipotence vs. free will is that God could make us love him but he wants us to choose to love him. That's all.
     
    LittleChief, Apr 17, 2014
    #91
  13. chopayne

    chopayne Die Hard Bowhunter

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    But that was never the topic?
     
    chopayne, Apr 17, 2014
    #92
  14. Muzzy Man

    Muzzy Man Grizzled Veteran

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    Yes, it was.
    He knows the number of hairs on our heads... though some are easier to count than others. LOL

    Romans 8:28... He does that for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes. Those who don't love Him aren't very likely to ponder such questions.

    Mature thinking... we've all been angry when God hasn't done it our way... I am thinking of Job here... But it's okay... He can handle it... and He'll grow us through it in time.

    Free Will vs. Divine Election is an argument dating back to Augustinian times... even Pauline times... we aren't likely to settle that one here.

    It is pretty cool that if God uses Jack Asses to humble kings... whose to say He couldn't use your situation to answer some questions for someone struggling in their faith?
     
    Muzzy Man, Apr 17, 2014
    #93
  15. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    Well, the original topic was "divine intervention". Somehow it morphed into omnipotence vs. free will.

    I believe that what I just posted is the only viable reason that an omnipotent creator would allow his creations free will. If that isn't directly related to the current topic then I don't know what is.
     
    LittleChief, Apr 17, 2014
    #94
  16. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    That was a really good reply.
     
    LittleChief, Apr 17, 2014
    #95
  17. chopayne

    chopayne Die Hard Bowhunter

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    True it morphed = ) But what I'm saying is that you can't have an omnipotent creator with free will.
     
    chopayne, Apr 17, 2014
    #96
  18. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    You can if the omnipotent creator gives his creations the ability to choose their own paths.
     
    LittleChief, Apr 17, 2014
    #97
  19. Spear

    Spear Grizzled Veteran

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    It's God shaking you saying, "I'M RIGHT HERE, COME BACK!"
     
    Spear, Apr 17, 2014
    #98
  20. Tony

    Tony Legendary Woodsman

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    If I empower one of my auditors to to do a job, how on earth does that take away my power???????????

    if I empower one of them to think for themselves when they are out there, how does that make me any less powerful???

    I want to know why that is so hard to understand? Is it me? It seems so plain to me....
     
    Tony, Apr 17, 2014
    #99
  21. Muzzy Man

    Muzzy Man Grizzled Veteran

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    Gen 4:7... God gave Cain a choice... even predicted the outcome. Cain chose the sin crouching at his door even when offered a second chance to do well.
     
    Muzzy Man, Apr 17, 2014
    #100
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