Do you believe in "Divine Intervention"?

Not sure why we are not connecting here... if He limits Himself by CHOICE, it means He could take away that limit by Choice ...

 

Yes, that would be All Powerful. But when he limits himself by choice, he is no longer All-Powerful right? He just gave a part of his "power" away thereby no longer being "All-Powerful" and only "Partially Powerful". He would still retain the power to revoke giving the power, but, he wouldn't have the power he just gave away.

 

Can I get some of what you're smokin? :D

 

Do you not see the flaw im trying to point at?

 

I do not, my friend....maybe I am just a moran! (misspelling intentional )

 

Well. Lets try this. You have all the money in the world, literally. You give money away to one person as a gift but you tell him that if you want your money back, that he is to give it back. The moment you give him money, do you have all the money in the world?

You said that free will exists because God limits himself in controlling peoples lives. If people have control over their lives and not him, is he All powerful? Only when he grabs that power back.

 

God so loved the World that he gave is only begotten son, that who ever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Free will is all powerful within itself.
Should one be forced to love? or to labor?
Faith is believing in things unseen.
He who has ears let him hear, he who has eyes let him see.
The answers are found within the Word of God as written in the Scriptures and confussion is found in the words of man as written in the forums.
Time to go get the bow and shoot awhile, perhaps think awhile.

 

As for this,
When one gives and asks for it back then said gift was never truly given.
A gift is not returned to the giver.

 

Ok. Then you lend it. Still doesn't take away from the point.

 

Maybe if we look at the question a little differently. Maybe we are expecting the Creator to be like us. Maybe the Creator is not like us at all.

My wife is doing research. Her subjects are mice and she has a colony of mice for which she is responsible and uses them as needed. She is also responsible for their care and feeding, etc. As a joke, one of her colleagues made up a poster and hung it where the mice can see it. It says, "Guys, do you realize that your Goddess is only human?"

The reason I bring this up is because the mice have no idea what she's doing or thinking. They have no idea why they are there or what is going to happen to them. Now she plays an active role in their lives. But when it comes to us, what if the Creator just established the universe, the earth, life on earth, and all, and is just here. Not playing any kind of active role in our lives at all because it isn't part of the design.

Now if the Creator were like us, then seeing another human in distress would arouse a desire to help. A Creator like us would not allow suffering, just as we consider it a virtue to alleviate suffering if we can. But what if the Creator doesn't "feel" like we humans do? Would it be proper for us to say that it's wrong for our Creator to not have the same feelings we have? To be so much greater than us that our limitations are not to be considered? But the Creator is always here and always within us, but everything proceeds on according to the design of creation.

 

What exactly is your point?

 

I never stated it was wrong what the Creator did. I would be more willing to believe a Creator who allows or creates evil and good and also does not provide free will as that would mean a Creator is all powerful. But I can't believe in one who is all powerful yet has nothing to do with evil and provides free will, those previous two items exclude one from being all powerful. No one said your Creator had to be nice, says Creator was loving and well, vicious at times. I can't imagine a God would have any qualms about allowing evil to exist or creating it, especially after killing billions of people in the old testament.

 

God is not all powerful if we have free will. God is not all powerful at the point he limits himself to provide free will.

 

Lots of what if questions and interesting analysis with which I would advise continued investigation through validated sources.

 

What would be validated sources?

 

What does the clay say to the potter?
The choice given us ... that is Powerful.

 

Dear Lord, did you really just ask him that question??? :D

 

Jesus Christ the Son of God

 

I'm not sure how that answers my question.

 

If I may interject... if God chooses to grant a limited degree of power (authority, autonomy etc...) That in no way negates His, does it? Matthew 28:18-19... ALL authority has been given unto me (Jesus) in heaven and on earth. (If He has all authority; how much do we have?) However, He says to His disciples... vs. 19 Go therefore making disciples of all nations. He does not surrender His power... he shares it. It's kind of like a smile... you don't lose your smile because you gave it to someone else. You see we are funny that way; we think we have to lose for someone else to gain something. That's part of the fatal flaw of our depravity. God doesn't see things the same way we do. He knows He can share His authority without losing any of it. An interesting discussion took place between Jesus and Pilate about this very thing in John 19:
Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above.

Remember in John 10 concerning power over his life Jesus said: No one takes it from Me,(my life) but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Many have a hard time with this dynamic... but again Jesus addresses it in Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Scriptures are replete with examples of how God can and does have all power and yet chooses to give others power at the same time.