Do you believe in "Divine Intervention"?

Not sure what you mean by that?

 

There is good, and there is evil.

I also don't believe that God just sits up in some booth pulling levers and pushing buttons making everything happen like the Wizzard of Oz. He's engaged in a battle. The battle was won (why we celebrate Easter) but there's always still fighting until it is finished. Kind of like how the allies really turned the tide on D-day, but there was still a lot of fighting to do (can also use VE day if you prefer).

 

I've been around awhile. I know about good and evil. But my question was, if divine intervention saved that elderly couple from a gas leak, what about the people, some of them young high school students, killed in that FedEx truck/bus crash? Did God just not care about those people? I don't think you're suggesting that they were evil.

 

Thanks for sharing that story. God uses instances like yours to point to His control (sovereignty) over everything. He's so good and faithful in giving us these glimpses of Him. I'm not sure why you walked away from faith or a life of following Christ but he promises to never leave us or forsake us. There is no such thing as coincidence, it's God at work! Keep looking up, and I pray that you search hard for Him....He promises that if we draw near to Him He'll draw near to us.

 

I'm not saying they were evil, but that there is evil out there (ie. Satan).

Without trying to dive too much into my theology and belief system, here goes:

The Kingdom of God (KOG) is when and where God gets his way. 100%. The hard part to understand is that we are in this "inbetween" time. That is, inbetween the introduction of the KOG and it's full presence (this would be the 'end of days', people raising from the dead, earth becomes heaven, etc.). Jesus talked of the KOG in three tenses. The KOG will come, the KOG is here, and the KOG is at hand (moving within reach). The tide of the war between good & evil was turned on the cross, but fighting will continue until the final days when the earth will be cleansed of evil.

In the mean time, we get glimpses, and pieces of the KOG. Sometimes God gets his way. Sometimes he doesn't. Heck, he's still fighting a battle in my life. Too often I'm afraid, he doesn't get His way. I'm just too damn stubborn.

Anyways, not sure if any of my rambling makes sense to anyone, but it's how I'm come to understand God's Kingdom on earth.

 

Sorry for the hijack Chief

 

I don't think you hijacked the thread. The topic was belief (or not) in divine intervention, and that's what we have been discussing. I am a believer, by the way, but I guess I don't believe in divine intervention. As of now, apparently about 287 people have died in that Korean ferry sinking, most of them high school students. I don't believe God engineered that and I don't believe God engineered the saving of the few who were rescued, although I'm sure that some are thanking God for their rescue. There are demons in the religion in which my wife was raised. But these demons do not engineer events. They just inspire people like you and me to do evil acts. If we are raised properly by our parents, we will resist the temptation to do evil acts. I'm not sure my question was precisely answered, but I did gain some additional insight, so thanks for the discussion.

 

Makes sense to me

I love letting you respond as I am still working on the "let you speech be always with grace" part of my walk at times

The story of Joseph is a great example...as are Daniel, Ruth, Paul, etc .... if you are a believer, and I do not want you to think I am saying you are not, the Bible is all about Divine intervention .... Christ being the ultimate example of it, Praise God!

 

I don't believe God had anything to do with it, if I did then I would have to believe God has his hands in horrible things that happen.

How many times has "Bad" luck cost a person their life?

 

Nobody is saying God has anything to do with bad....it amazes me how people twist this topic...

 

Ok, then help me out. Who was the OP referring too?

 

I don't think anyone is twisting anything. If God is all-powerful, then if something bad happens, either God made it happen, or God let it happen.

This is not a put down of God or anything. It just seems like that's the way it works.

 

Good discussion. It was much needed on my end.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4.

 

God gives us all free will. Some of us choose to live in the city of man, while others choose to live in the city of God, as adaptly described by Augustine de Hippo in the 5th century. In this realm where the two cities occupy the same space, there are tragic events that happen when people choose the city of man over the city of God. There are also wonderful events that happen too when man allows God to lead our lives, or if you prefer when man opens his heart to virtuousness.

 

So you would feel secure in saying that those 287 high school kids who have apparently died on that ferry in Korea, or those people, including high school kids, who died when that FedEx truck hit their bus, died because the didn't allow God to lead their lives or, perhaps, didn't open their hearts to virtuousness? Really? I think what you said is pretty plain, but if I misinterpreted somehow, please correct me.

And please don't just say that I misinterpreted. Show me how I did, because your words are pretty plain as I see them.

 

Yes you did misinterpret. The temporary ferry captain decided to make his trip potentially 30 minutes shorter by cutting through shallow waters filled with underwater obstacles to show his bosses he could save time and money when his designated route took him around the danger. He was living for himself, disregarding the welfare of others and caused the deaths of how many others we do not exactly know. Had he done the virtuous act and followed the prescribed route that was laid out for him, this incident would not have happened. As far as the Fedex truck goes, I do not know who caused the accident nor why it happened as I don't watch local news but I happen to follow what is going on my my wife's homeland daily.

 

So I didn't misinterpret you. Because I wasn't referring to a captain who broke the rules. I was referring to the people who died in both instances. In your previous post you said that one dies because he doesn't allow God to lead his life or because he didn't open his heart to virtuousness.

So if you allow God to lead your life or open your heart to virtuousness, then you can expect God to intervene to save you. But if God does not intervene to save someone, then we can assume that the person did not allow God to lead his life or he didn't open his heart to virtuousness?

Probably time for me to go now.

 

I did NOT say that one dies becuse he does not allow God to lead his life. I said "there are tragic events that happen when people choose the city of man over the city of God." The captain chose the city of man that led to the deaths of his passengers! Try fathoming what is said instead of reading bias into it.

 

I don't normally get into theses discussions, but I think I have a story that goes along with what Fitz is saying.

For the last few years we have been going to a local church that my wife loves. The pastor of the church Craig had a daughter in her early 20's. Well this girl had horrible problems with addiction, it had completely taken over her life. About the time we first started going to this church the pastor asked my wife if she would please talk with his daughter because my wife has had in her past 1st hand experience with addiction. My wife Lori met with this girl several times and learned that she had been sexually abused from the age of 7 till she was 11 or 12 and it really screwed her up.

Fast forward to about a month ago. We got a phone call that Hannah(pastors daughter) was in the hospital after an overdose. She lived for a few days and then died. Since then Pastor Craig and his wife have been overwhelmed with calls from girls who have told them that Hannah even in the middle of her own suffering had reached out to them and had helped them deal with abuse and addiction problems in their own lives. Also calls from parents of children who are addicts begging for Craig and his wife to come pray with them.

Now I don't think that God caused Hannah to be abused or to use drugs but I do believe that he was using her to help bring others who were suffering to Him and to help. And even after her death her story has helped others to get help and maybe even save their own lives.

Back to the OP I think you saved your neighbors lives yesterday and you also maybe saved your grandchildren's lives by having to put Max down.