Disgusted in DNR/ Fish & Game depts. (Long Rant)

They were historically pretty widespread prior to European expansion and trapping Here's a current range map.


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HEY! You leave MI out of that slag heap. It's about as purple as it gets, and getting redder if anything.
Not that the MI DNR response is the right recipe to combat CWD or they should continue to ban eating sandhills/doves. Just saying that putting MI in the same category as the other 2 is just plain wrong. At least in MI; sportsmen get a say. The state is very dependent on revenues from licensing.

Speaking of; sandhills have to be about one of if not the most successful wildlife restoration projects since whitetails. When I was a kid I had never heard of much less seen one. Now? They're everywhere in the upper midwest. It's time to start harvesting them.

 

Perhaps, I should have specified the Detroit area. Hasn't it taken a severe downhill turn in recent years?

 

But they only eat the sick and the wounded.

 

That map is wrong on so many levels. They are statewide in MO, at least the eastern half of KS (if not all of) and Nebraska.

 

No range map is perfect buddy. Populations expand and contract. It's the nature of the beast. Sorry that I couldn't find one that shows the population by numbers of "your" pond

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pffft. More like half a century.
MI is a weird state politically. Kind of like MN and WI- lots of northern hillbillies. Of course the Detroit metro area is going to be blue, but most people outside that area are libertarian-ish or conservative in values (small "c" intentional.) If it wasn't for Dem pandering to skilled trade/unions that state would bleed R red. Now that members are having their eyes opened to the fact that unions themselves are now Big Business and only care about dues rather than members' wages (unions by and large are now lobbying for open borders in order to increase membership) you see working class people starting to vote R in federal elections.

The Dems know this, which is why instead of trying to change peoples' minds they are just importing a whole new population of uneducated and poor to keep voting for Santa Clause.

sorry for the hi-jack. Big government/corporatist Rs are just as bad. Back to topic.

In the past few years the MI DNR has actually been pretty good especially in regards to deer; they've engaged in productive dialogue and both educated and been educated by the public. Especially in regards to implementing antler point restrictions, encouraging doe harvest, etc.

I know I am on the record here and elsewhere as being somewhat of a CWD alarmist. But modest rule changes such as bait/mineral banning seem to me to be a "better safe than sorry" response. Sure, your carrot and beet farmers are going to take a hit but if no one wants to hunt in an ever expanding hot zone then those piles of beets are just going to rot away at the local bait vendor stand anyway.

I don't think expanding the center-fire gun season through the end of MZ is going to make much of a difference either. For one thing; most modern muzzleloaders are now more accurate/longer range capable than most slug guns and a lot of shotgun hunters (in the southern no-rifle zone) have made the switch to MZ. Also, now that crossbows are legal archery equipment across the board; a decently large number of gun hunters are now crossbow hunters and fill their tags before it gets cold anyway. I know my old man and uncles do- they'd rather hunt with crossbows throughout October than freeze their titanium joints off holding cold blued steel in late November. Other than opening day of gun; the woods are actually less orange-army crowded in late November than they were before crossbows were legal.

I do think that banning natural scents is a bit much; but plenty of deer hunters fill their tags w/o using Tinks.

Not saying that Booner doesn't bring up a lot of insightful info here; but lumping MI's CWD response into this seems...prematurely judgemental.

 

I wouldn't expect perfection but I wouldn't think something even closer than 600 miles off would be too much to ask.

 

There may be a more updated range map out there, but that map was last updated in 07, and it takes ongoing research to keep them updated as populations expand and contract. If there is no money for research....
The point of my posting the map was less about exact range, and more about the fact that they cover most of North America. Here is another map that lists their population vulnerability ranking for each state. Once again, the map is only as good as the research but here you go


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Yep, they cover most of north america now. They didn't before several state DNRs reintroduced them about the same time. It was a broad joint venture. Nebraska stocked a few hundred pair back in the mid 80s around the same time our MO one stocked about 800. They are environmentally and economically destructive but they are sure cute to look at...

 

http://rarespecies.nebraska.gov/portfolio/river-otter/
Skip on down to the part that is titled "Population status". If you dont care to actually do the research (no offense, but that seems to be the case) I will give you the highlights.

Yes they are native to Nebraska.

Yes, they were extirpated from Nebraska in the early 1900's due to over trapping.

Yes, they were listed as a state endangered species in the 80's. (Probably wouldnt do that if it wasn't native).

Yes, they actually did stock 159 individuals in the late 80s early 90s. (Quite a few less than a "couple hundred pairs")

No, they aren't "environmentally destructive" in environments where they evolved.

And yes, they are indeed cute.


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I said that based off what I was told by a retired DNR employee. I assume he made a generalization or he had more info than what was officially reported. I did enough research to confirm the restocking program, not the specific number. One pair was two too many.

Big deal.

Yep and they should have stayed that way at least in my state.

So what? I never said they weren't a native species at some point...no idea what you're rambling on about here.

As I said, I was going by what a retired employee told me in conversation, I assume he made a generalization or knew something that was misreported. The crime was that any were released, not the specific number.

BS, they are destructive in any environment. This is the kind of drivel conservationists spew to defend their filthy actions. Scumballs the lot of them.

Cute as a rattlesnake and just as needed. Come to think of it I'd rather have rattlesnakes or otters than these ignorant f*cks in the conservation departments doing this kind of ignorant and repugnant sh*t.

 

Lol. You keep throwing the word "ignorant" out. I give you facts, you come back with heresay, opinion, and foul mouthed drivel. I'd say that speaks for itself.
If you care to have a big boy conversation/discussion/argument then I'm your man. Otherwise, I'm done with this conversation, as far as talking to you is concerned. Have a good day.

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Well this thread was enlightening!!!

 

Prior to the name calling and arguing over others I agree. Booner's original post, even though he called a rant, I found very enlightening and I 100% agree with what he said. I've only been hunting for the last 7 or 8 years here in WV but I've lived here my entire life. Our DNR did a similar thing as the otters except with coyotes. We had the coyote population in this state all but obliterated and about a decade ago or so the DNR, at the behest of insurance companies and other "big money" companies no doubt, reintroduced coyotes to the state in order to cull the deer population. As if we had sone great hunter shortage...in West by God Virginia -.- dumbest thing they've ever done. Now we have continuous open firearm coyote hunting because they are out of control. Ridiculous. When I got together with my fiance I gained access to her family's land to enjoy my hunting on which is an absolute blessing and I'm thankful every day don't get me wrong but the yotes are really crampin my style. They've been known to come within 50yds of the house at night especially in the fall and winter. Next spring they're in for trouble because I'm adding a bedroom to our cabin and with all the extra time I'll be spending on the farm I'm making good use of that open season!

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I can't have a grown up conversation with a prick that is fundamentally wrong with every point he tries to make while trying to defend the indefensable. You ain't heard foul mouthed till you get this red neck pissed off. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

A simple Google search will prove at no point did West Virginia reintroduce coyotes.

 

Even if they aren't solely responsible for their reappearance in this state they highly encouraged their growth and did absolutely nothing to attempt to curb it. Again living here for the duration of my lifetime as well as having a dozen or so close friends who have been Mountaineers for their 50-70 years no outdoorsman believes that the DNR did not play a huge role in their rise to prevelance again. That same Google search will also show you that they were all but wiped out within our borders, in fact you can find articles that say they've always been here and articles that claim that WV was never part of their historical range...can't be both. Regardless no self respecting hunter in this state believes a government entity that thought it a good idea to place the newly reintroduced elk directly into the center of the most highly poached counties in the state. There is absolutely no denying that. Not saying that there aren't great, law abiding, ethical hunters in Logan county but there are twice as many super backcountry, poaching a-holes that would ruin the elk herd for the rest of us and not think twice about it.

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yeah, that seemed a bit unlikely. Although the end result may be the same.

 

You win the internet for the most ignorant group of posts for the day. Congrats. Frame the award and put it on the mantle in your trailer.