*Discussion*: Winter food source - Corn vs. Brassicas

So you quit hunting food sources in Mid October? Give it a try man, I love habitat and herd management almost as much as the hunting part!

 

Right, Im not sure sugar beets offer anything better than PTT and they are harder to grow, and I am guessing harder to find seed in Central MN. Ill Stick with LickCreeks blend of brassicas instead...

 

But does the WR/WW last as long as the brassicas? if you went 100% WR/WW vs 100% brassicas, which would feed the herd longer? I have also heard that grasses like WR and WW are highly attractive, but I have always assumed they are low in tonnage per acre. We don't have a problem where I am with deer finding brassicas, our biggest problem is they eat them too fast and there is no food left by January or February.

For those that have planted brassicas in the past and their deer didn't browse on them, LC often said that Groundhog Forage Radish may change their mind, may be worth a try next season..

 

Generally speaking... I do quit hunting food sources once the rut is near. Once the rut is over, there is nothing better than standing corn and beans. I've hunted over winter rye that the farmer planted in his turned up corn, but the deer much preferred the corn/beans. The neighbor did plant a brassica mix in his low lying areas last year and the deer didn't touch them.

It is nice to have a variety, but I'll stick to what is proven. I'm a KISS guy... Keep it simple stupid.

 

When you say standing corn and beans, are you talking a few rows that the farmer leaves for you or and entire field that wasn't harvested?

Also, you are talking about hunting where as I was more going for holding deer on a property throughout the winter.

 

WR/WO/WW get hammered through the snow just as hard as brassicas we've seen and depending on the seed rate and deer density I could see a half acre of each lasting a similar amount of time really, with brassicas getting the edge merely because bulbs are left alone really until the cold while the WR/WW/WO get nibbled on quite a bit atleast for us throughout the year.

We refuse to plant just one type of plot anymore...no 100% brassica plots and no 100% cereal grains...a dusting of either will always go in the other at minimum.

 

What Ty said. They will dig through the snow to get both, and both last just as long for me. The nice thing about cereals, though, is you get green food all winter, and then in spring before the bulk of the woodland green up occurs, plus it provides nesting habitat for turkeys as well as fawn cover if left standing for a while. I've had rye get to 5' tall the following spring before terminating it.

 

What! West/central MN is a sugar beet mecca.

 

Central MN? I have never seen sugar beets in the Alex area. I don't get straight west much but I live in Fargo and commute on weekends to Alex. I see sugar beets for maybe 15 miles out of Fargo before it turns to corn and beans... So I guess I could buy seed in Fargo but I have no idea where...

 

We usually section our plots into different crops, but I dont think I would take the time to put a dusting of grain in our brassica mix, just too much canopy and competition I would think? In your plots that the deer hammer the grains all winter long, what is the neighboring competition for food sources look like? There are two reasons I would be reserved about planting grains for a winter attractant/holding food plot is there is usually a couple acres of standing corn within a few miles of our property and I worry the deer will end up in that corn field by winters end whether they hammer the winter wheat or not. Also, every other year there is an AG field of winter wheat that I don't feel I can compete with.. That may change since they are using a poplar tree farm as bedding next to that field, and the tree farm is scheduled to be terminated this winter. We will have to see how that goes..

 

Here's one map I found.

http://www.sugarproducer.com/uploads/pdf2.pdf

 

We generally have the farmer leave us a few acres of corn and a few acres of beans each season.

Holding deer on the property vs hunting, I still feel the same way. Always corn and beans. The deer will not flock to and stay on your property simply because you have brassicas planted.

I don't hunt a large piece of ground and believe it would be near impossible to hold deer on my property. I have all of the makings of prime land... Bedding, water, food, etc. But the neighbors also have the same things.

 

Did a little research over lunch on nutrition. First off, I found this picture that is interesting for the common food plotter:


Second, I did some research on the nutritional value of the different crops we have talked about. Taking in mind the top nutritional requirement of whitetails for the time we are discussing (December - Green up) is carbs.

Corn grain shelled (assuming deer only eat the kernel):

Dry Matter (DM) -88%
Neutral Detergent Fiber - 9% of DM
Total Digestible Nutrient - 88% of DM
Crude Protein - 9.8% of DM
Nonfiber Carbohydrates (Starches) - 75% of DM
Fat - 4.3% of DM
Calcium - 0.03% of DM
Phosphorus - 0.31% of DM

Feed Analysis: It's All About Energy

Reading the article, you can see shelled corn is mostly made up of carbs, and the article states many of these carbs are complex carbs in the form of starches, which are great for whitetails since they are slow digesting and long lasting energy.


Winter grains, (Hay for search terms):

I found this article looking at the non-structured carbohydrate (NSC) content (digestible sugars and starches-carbs) of horse feeds as a % of dry matter.

Grass Hay - 13.8%
Alfalfa Hay - 11.3%
Oat Hay - 22.1%
Bermuda Hay - 13.5%

Average amongst Grass, Oat, and Bermuda Hay = 16.5% of DM (as close as I can get for WR/WW/WO carb content)

http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/JEVS8-05.pdf

But something to remember - it appears grain forages have a much lower DM% than Corn. This site has some average yield data:

Barley: 1.9 DM tons/acre
Oats: 2.5 DM tons/acre
Wheat: 1.8 DM tons/acre
Triticale (wheat-rye hybrid): 2.1 DM tons/acre

Using small grains for forage | MSU Extension

Now, I know there is no Rye listed, but I would take an un educated guess it would be 2.4 DM tons / acre based of wheat and the wheat-rye hybrid of triticale. No evidence supporting this claim.

Can I assume 50% of your winter grains will be foraged by December?


Based on LC's claim that in his brassica blend, deer will first target GHFR tops, then rape, and leave turnip bulbs for last in the middle of winter. Ill look first at nutrition content of turnip bulbs and see if I can find anything on radish bulbs (or whatever they are called) later.

This website has some information on turnips and splits it pretty nicely between leaf and bulb.
DM %
Leaf - 12.2%
Bulb - 7.5%
Protein (crude):
Leaf - 15.7%
Bulb - 12.2%

Water Soluble Carbs (monosaccharide, disaccharides, and starches):
Leaf - 10.7%
Bulb - 46.6%
Mean NDF was 22.5% across whole plant - which I will use for my calculations.

Is it safe to assume a 40-40-20 break down of tonnage/acre in LC's GHFR-PPT-R Mix? Meaning for every 10 tons of DM/acre, 4 tons are from PPT? I found another website stating carb content of Daikons to be aprroximately the same as the PPTs, and I will assume Daikons = GHFR, with half the GHFR grazed off by winter.

http://www.grassland.org.nz/publications/nzgrassland_publication_2266.pdf

http://www.kingsagriseeds.com/blog/...r-Forage-Brassica-Crops-2-20-13-D.-Wilson.pdf

Soybeans (Raw):
DM % - 86.0
Crude Protein - 40.9
NFC % - 23.3

http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/nutrition/nutrition-and-feeding/ration-ingredients/soybeans-and-soybean-byproducts-for-dairy-cattle-1

Basically, High in protein and average in carbs. Like I have said in other threads, probably the best overall food source for whitetails if you can grow enough of it..


Putting it all together:
Corn:
50bu/a = 2800 lbs/a*DM % (88%) = 2464 lbs DM/a * NFC % (75% carbs) = .924 tons/acre carb content
100bu/a = 5600 lbs/a*DM % (88%) = 4928 lbs DM/a * NFC % (75% carbs) = 1.848 tons/acre carb content
150bu/a = 8400 lbs/a*DM % (88%) = 7392 lbs DM/a * NFC % (75% carbs) = 2.772 tons/acre carb content

Grain Forage (WW/WO/WR)
.75 ton DM/a * NSC % (16.5 % carbs) = .128 tons/a carb content * 50% Fall Foraging rate = .064 tons/acre winter carb content
1.5 ton DM/a * NSC % (16.5 % carbs) = .256 tons/a carb content * 50% Fall Foraging rate = .128 tons/acre winter carb content
2.25 ton DM/a * NSC % (16.5 % carbs) = .384 tons/a carb content * 50% Fall Foraging rate = .196 tons/acre winter carb content

Brassicas (40% GHFR, 40% PPT, 20% Rape by DM) assumed 50% of GHFR and 75% of PPT left at winter.
1 ton DM/a * (50%*40% GHFR + 75%*40%) = .5 ton DM/a left at winter * WSC % (22.5% carbs) = .1125 tons/a carb content
3 ton DM/a * (50%*40% GHFR + 75%*40%) = 1.5 ton DM/a left at winter * WSC % (22.5% carbs) = .3375 tons/a carb content
5 ton DM/a * (50%*40% GHFR + 75%*40%) = 2.5 ton DM/a left at winter * WSC % (22.5% carbs) = .5625 tons/a carb content

Soybeans
15 bu/a = 900 lbs/a * DM % (86%) = 774 lbs/a * NFC % (23.3%) = .090 tons / acre carb content
30 bu/a = 1800 lbs/a * DM % (86%) = 1548 lbs/a * NFC % (23.3%) = .180 tons / acre carb content
45 bu/a = 2700 lbs/a * DM % (86%) = 2322 lbs/a * NFC % (23.3%) = .270 tons / acre carb content


Depending slightly on what you can expect for yields, it looks like corn is the best source of carbs, followed by brassicas with winter grains close behind and soybeans safely bringing up the rear.

This is all very rough math and research, but it makes sense to me. If you planted an acre of each of these crops, it seems soybeans would last the shortest amount of time even though they are a great food source and corn would last the longest amount of time with full yields. I thought brassicas would be closer to corn, but the high % of carbs in corn really gives corn a boost.

What are your guys thoughts on this? Hopefully they aren't "what a waste of time"

 

OK, then I would effectively call those foodplots for the purpose of this thread, even though you didnt plant them as such. Yes those would be ideal at keeping deer on your property. One thing I may not agree with is the comment about brassicas, I think brassicas may out perform corn as an attractant and holding food source, given enough of each crop - but I have no prove of this.

 

Interesting, while the ground may provide for it, I sure haven't seen many sugar beet operations so far east. That map has the deciduous forest of the Fergus Falls area highlighted, and it doesnt seem like there is enough big Ag in that area to support beets. Although based on their placement of Moorhead and Wahpeton, their East and West lines may not be reliable

 

Well I wouldn't necessarily hold a lot of value to a shaded map like that but Renville north is HUGE into sugar beets through the Red River Valley, with Alex, right in the middle!

 

I have never seen a sugar beet in Alex, but I think we would be in that little cutout that isn't shaded so that makes sense...

 

I can tell you're an engineer

 

Ha what gave it away?

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heres the BOTTOM LINE!!.
i've lived in the red river valley of MN all my life.

you can have standing cornfield/soybean ANYWHERE, even close to good winter thermal cover but push come to shove, most EVERY SINGLE deer will migrate to the closest sugarbeet field to winter. as long as it has close thermal cover.