I'm also wanting to hear a little bit more about this Matt. I just think there are too many variables that are hunter/setup specific to call that shot for someone else. To add to your last statement Jeff, it has a lot to do with sight LENGTH too. The distance from your peep to your pin. Peep height plays a factor too I believe.All of this effects short yardage conversions dramatically. If you use a program like Archers Advantage, you can plug your setup in the program and it will spit out short yardage conversion tables for you. I'll see if I can find that.
Ok. I found a short yardage table I had for my target bow. You might want to note that these numbers are for FLAT ground shots. 6ft-81yds 7ft-71yds 8ft-63yds 9ft-56yds 10ft-51yds 11ft-47yds 12ft-43yds 13ft-40yds 14ft-37yds 15ft-35yds 16ft-33yds 17ft-31yds 18ft-29yds 19ft-28yds 20ft-27yds 21ft-25yds 22ft-24yds 23ft-23 yds 24ft-22yds 25ft-21yds 26ft-21yds 27ft-20yds 28ft-19yds 29ft-18yds 36ft-15yds You get the idea. But IF you factor in the height of a treestand, I don't see a 40yd pin being neccessary. Note, these numbers were for my target setup, so it varies between different setups, but this just gives you an idea.
The reason I use my second pin is because my arrow speed is slow and the pins are further apart than they would be with a faster arrow. If I shot a faster arrow I likely would have to use my 3rd pin(40yd).
There is a world of difference in flat ground vs elevated shooting straight down. Gravity isn't causing the arrow to sink toward the ground as it travels parallel ( more or less) to the ground. The arrow will not be rising off the bow because u are not shooting at a far away target down range. Remember we aren't holding parallel to the ground but perpindicular to it. This changes everything. As the target gets farther and farther fromthe tree we have to account for the trajectory. And yes at 3 yards from the base there will b a little. But not much.
What's the arrow doing then? The arrow HAS to be going upwards some. Just because you are changing the angle, doesn't mean you're changing the physics of how a bow works. The arrow doesn't say, hey the target isn't that far away so I'm not going to start rising on this shot. My point is, the arrow HAS to rise some.
The only reason the arrow rises on longer shots is because it is aimed over the target. Extremely close shots are no longer aimed over the target.
The arrow never really rises. It just goes in the direction pointed. The farther you are from the target (on level ground) the higher you aim the arrow. When I set my bow up the arrow is level, some bows set up with nock a little bit high. There is no reason for the arrow to rise except that you are aiming above the intended point of impact.
Well besides point blank, aren't you always going to be aiming above the point of impact? If you are using your 40yd pin on this shot,like most said they would, you are essentially pointing the arrow higher than it's intended target. If the arrow, in fact, isn't rising or arching at all (like mobow eluded to) wouldn't this contradict mobow's point in the in the first place?
At extremely close range you are essentially aiming point blank. That is the whole point. You are no longer compensating for distance and gravity so you no longer have to aim above the point of impact. Some folks use 40, some use the bottom pin but the idea, as stated earlier, is a pin closer to your arrow. I have read that some folks just point the arrow and don't really aim with a pin. Other than aiming higher than point of impact what would cause an arrow to rise or fly on an arc?
well my original point behind this thread is there is more "distance" on this 8 foot shot than the 8 feet the deer is from the tree. Depending on the height of the hunter, it's probably in the vacinity of 25 feet from the hunter to the deer. Jeff's point is that, no matter what, the arrow HAS to rise to the point you are looking, or line of sight. Whether it's because of how you are aiming or not, the arrow is still having to rise, regardless of distance.
NO, no it does not. The only reason an arrow arcs up is because it's pointed up. The arrow does not rise, neither does a bullet for that matter. When a bow is set up, it's set up level. Is yours not? In a Hooter Shooter and level wouldn't your arrow immediately start to drop because of gravity. Of course it would. When shooting down, the arrow never once rises. It will still cross your line of sight but your line of sight is also looking down. The arrow traveling out and down will cross that line of sight without ever once rising.
YA... mother fudger.. Eat That!!! I'm just messing around.. I have no idea really.. I just like all the press.
Guys. Assuming we are aiming straight down it will make NO difference if the target is 30 feet or 300 yards. There is NO elevation to account for when shooting straight down. We don't need to worry about arrow drop because there is none. Drop something out of a plane. Does it rise? No. Wind drift yea. But it will go straight down. The laws are not the same when shooting horizontally to the ground vs perpindicular to it. Rob is right. The only reason the arrow goes above your line of sight is because it's pointed that way. Not so straight down. The only factor in straight down is wind drift. Use the SAME pin if the target is 30 feet or 300. Doesn't matter. On the horizontal plane the target is in the same place.
No, but close enough. In one of my earlier replies I mentioned that as the target gets farther away from the base of the tree (the horizontal plane) it becomes more like what we're used to. But at a mere 3 yards from the tree.......it's negligible. I know it seems contradicting to what we know to be true but again.......we have to remember that the arrow isn't traveling on a horizontal plane anymore. It's more verticle. Gravity doesn't have the same effect. While the target may indeed still be 45 feet away, on the horizontal plane it's only 9 feet. HUGE difference. What Rob was eluding to earlier is this. When we tune a bow the arrow is set to be perfectly level (or very near it, anyway) on the rest. So, if we were to not aim at anything and not be worried about POI, and shot the arrow perfectly level to the ground.....The arrow would NEVER rise above your line of sight. How could it? The arrow is BELOW your line of sight to start with so if you shot it perfectly level off your bow.......it would never rise. It IMMEDIATELY begins falling to earth because of gravity. What makes it 'rise' (it's not really rising, it's flying the direction it's pointed) is because we have to account for the target being farther away on the horizontal plane. We can't shoot a perfectly level arrow at a target 30 yards away. If the arrow even makes it to the target you'll shoot under it. While you have your arrow set perfectly level on your rest.....if you were to put a level on your arrow while aiming at a target 30 yards away guess what? That's right, the arrow isn't level anymore. It's pointed up, toward the sky. I don't have the education to use the correct wording to explain all of this but I totally understand the principle. The only way is to see it. Set a target straight down and use your 20 yard pin. Guarantee you hit low. Let's say you're shooting at a deer facing directly away from you, directly below you. If you aim between the shoulders and use your 20 yard pin yer gonna gut shoot the deer. IF you can make the shot at all. Again, you simply cannot maintain the perfect "T" form while shooting straight down. Ole Coop here shot high but......that's because of.....um........let's call it buck fever. LOL.....the poor guy could barely stand, let alone shoot. :D The best way I can explain it is this. Draw the arc of an arrow as it goes toward a target on level ground. Now rotate that arc 90* straight down. The arc of the arrow goes AWAY from you, but see.......since you aren't shooting on the horizontal plane it never comes toward you again. It won't. It can't. Gravity is pulling it toward the ground (which is the way it's already pointed) and not back toward you. Gravity doesn't work vertically. There is no arc while shooting straight down. If you shoot your 20 yard pin straight down, the arrow is angling away from you. It will NEVER make a move back toward you. If that makes sense at all.
I deleted that last one......I couldn't get it to look like I wanted it to.........I'm not computer literate enough.....I should have hit preview before I posted it.
The deer is 25.63 feet from the archer. I'm shooting it for 3 yards and using my 50 yard pin. Dude, I don't have the education in physics to teach this class, but I know what's gonna work. And my 20 yard pin won't cut it. If i use my 20 yard pin at that range I miss low. If I'm wrong, show my why.
