I just bought a Hoyt Alpha Max and shoot it at 68 lb with 30" draw. The arrows are 30" and stick out past the riser. I am new back into bowhunting and let the shop pick the arrows - they selected and sold me 30" (two inches longer than my drop away rest) PSE Radial Weave STL Hunter 400 arrows. I shoot 100 grain points. The total arrow with point is 417 grains. The guys at the club tell me I should be shooting 300 weight arrows and they should also be cut down by 2" that sticks out past the rest to increase speed. I trusted the local bow shop but every chart I see seems to indicate the guys at the club are correct. I do not shoot 3D. I hunt whitetail deer.
You're confusing arrow weight with arrow spine. And....... Your buddies are wrong. Weight and spine are mutually exclusive. If you pre-determine your tip weight, when you go through the tuning process, the arrow length will be what it will be.
I should have been more clear on my question. I am wondering if I should be shooting the 300 size instead of the 400 size shaft given all of the other information.
IMO, yes (should be shooting 300's). But, don't get too caught up on your arrow length. Like I said, it'll be what it'll be.
I don't think an EASTON 300 is the same as a PSE 300. Unless I am mistaken - and I could be - PSE and Easton use different numbering scales. They are backwards I think in terms of direction of weight/strength and numbering convention. Having said that - the PSE still calls for their 300, although unlike Easton they do not make any accomodation for a faster cam.
here is the PSE chart - it seems a little backwards numbering system wise from Easton http://www.pse-archery.com/cat.php?k=56063&sk=56063
Oh yeah, cutting them shorter will only make them even more stiff. Maybe try a 125 grain tip? That would soften them up a bit.
To clear things up a bit, Easton numbers their arrows using the spine of the shaft. PSE and CX use a numbering convention that is confusingly inverse to the spine of the shaft. A PSE400 has a similar spine to the Easton300 with a .300 spine or deflection rating and the PSE300 is similar to the Easton 340 with a .340 deflection rating. Why manufacturers insist on making things more complicated than they need to be is beyond my comprehension. I give big kudos to Easton for keeping it simple!!! If you want to keep the PSE400 shafts you could try stepping up to a 125 grain point or even going to a 50 grain brass insert by Muzzy that will soften the dynamic spine on them. For your rig I would have set you up with the PSE300 shaft at 29" but you can make the PSE400 work. Personally I would go to the brass insert with the 400's to get that total arrow weight up since those PSE shafts are relatively light for a carbon arrow. However, I'm known for liking a heavy arrow over a light arrow. As Davy said, don't shorten those PSE400's or they'll get even stiffer. Shooting an arrow that is longer than your rest is no problem and some folks even do it on purpose to get added arrow weight.
Is 417 grains (with a 100 grain tip) really considered a light arrow for hunting? Some of the guys are telling me it is too heavy - but they are mostly 3D shooters and from what I can tell they care primarily about trajectory not penetration. Having said that a 68 lb bow with a 30" draw should be plenty powerful enough to penetrate even with light arrows - or at least it seems that way to me. I have not done any calculations of KE at distance because I don't know how much the arrows slow down over the yards.
You'll be fine. I personally like something in the 450 grain area but my draw length is only 27" so I can use the extra weight. I know many do but wouldn't go lighter than 375 grains.
It looks like there is little weight to be gained by using a 300 vs. a 400 so as long as the 400 shoots well I really have no beef. There is only a 12 grain difference (417 vs 405) in weight for a 30" arrow. I can shorten the arrow and pick up 12 grains - although it then becomes even more stiff. PSE Radial X Weave Size Gr. / Inch Shaft Vanes Knock Insert Arrow Point Total 100 6.6 X 26.5 175 18 12 11 216 75 291 200 7.5 X 26.5 199 18 12 11 240 75 315 300 8.8 X 30 264 18 12 11 305 100 405 400 9.2 X 30 276 18 12 11 317 100 417
Stop worrying about the length of the arrow. It'll be what it'll be. You have two concerns (and one NON-concern). 1. Correct spine 2. Adequate weight. Sounds like you have No. 2 taken care of. Take care of No. 1....and forget about the Non-concern (length).
Mine are 580 grains at 29.5 inch and 70 lbs... then again I'm not exactly hunting whitetails either. You're fine for what you're doing. Somethings to keep in mind are that a heavier arrow tunes easier, it retains downrange energy and trajectory better and it's easier on the bow (quieter too) than a light arrow. In the end it's all relative to what you're doing with it and what you want to accomplish so it's a very individual choice.
The reason I am even bringing up the length is because it is not "what it will be", it is what I decided to make it. I have 30" but only need 28" so that was the discussion - I have the optoin of taking 2" off - but of course that effects the spine. I ended up building a excel spreadsheet that calculates adjusted speed from IBO, energy, etc based on the two shaft options - and at the end of the day I can get all of about 10-15 fps - at the bow - if I drop arrow spine, length and tip weight (from 100 to 75) but I am sure the RETAINED energy down range drops off faster for a lighter arrow - so project that it all just starts to "wash out" once I get past 30 yards - the only place that matters here anyway. I think I am just going to stick with what I have and do nothing because if I cut them 2" shorter I stiffen things up even more and may need to add more weight up front - so nothing is gained. Perhaps on the next go-round of arrow purchases I will buy the 300's and go to a 75 grain tip - but I will cross that bridge when I get there and right now I have a dozen new 400 arrows to go lose at the club and throw at deer. Thanks for all the comments and help.
That's fine....as long as you're OK with shooting your bow/arrow out of tune. You're right. You can make it any length you want. But, if you want to shoot a tuned arrow/bow combo.... 1. Pick your desired point weight. 2. Pick the proper spine range. 3. Cut arrow until proper tune is achieved. It'll be what it'll be. Once you pre-determine arrow length, not doing it in that order....you have to be willing to adjust: draw weight or tip weight to achieve proper tune. Good luck.
While absolutely true for traditional gear, not necessarily true for modern compounds and certainly not for most people's tuning regimen. While going to that extreme will yield a more perfect tune there are more simple ways to address the issue and those are what most people use. In any case, the arrow has to be of a spine range that allows for it to be tuned to given draw length and weight or no method of tuning is going to get what you need out of it.
How does this differ from what I said? What alternate methods are used to achieve proper tune? What degree of imperfection is "acceptable"?
