The public land that I hunt made some rule changes this year. For the last ten years or so, a gun killed buck had to have atleast 4pts on one side, and bowkills had to have atleast 3 points on one side. They changed it this year to 4pts per side regardless of weapon. I am all for management, and i realize that they cant do it by age because alot of people cant accurately age a deer on the hoof. But the problem is all the giant 6pts we have walking around. I mean big 6s that are old. If we continue to kill all the 8pts and up, and let these big old 6pts walk, wont we have a lot of 6pt genetics being spread out in our herd? Im no biologist so i dont know. What you guys think? Is my thinking correct?
What some of the WMA's around me here in KY do is have a minimum spread. 15in is the min. no antler point requirements. Pretty easy to judge for most hunters.
I think the four point on one side rule helps out a lot, but it hurts also. You will have those big six points running around but there is not a whole lot of those. And the spread rule is the same. Where I hunt we see deer all the time that are over 130's that aren't 15 inches wide. We don't get any wide deer where I hunt. So I think you will have a problem with both but they both can also help out. We have had the four point on one side in missouri for a while and I have been able to see progress on one of our farms. It helps some of the young deer survive the people that think if it's brown it's down. I don't think they will be able to find a way to make everyone happy because a lot of people can't field judge the age of a deer.
This is a good reason why those in game management should at least understand the concept of genetics. Most don't.
I wouldn't be to quick to paint with such brush..considering that modern deer management is pretty successful ...for the most part they do understand genetics in the deer herd however their goals and targets maybe very different your own. What most know and learn that of the three factors, age nutrition and genetics. the factor that has the least effect and we as managers have the least control over in wild populations are genetics. Most biologist have a more then adequate understandings of the herds genetic potential. That knowledge lends itself to understanding that the majority of mature bucks tend to have at least one antler with 4 or more points, noticed I said majority not all. The trade off of several more mature bucks with only 3 points may slip though the cracks, however the amount of mature 6 points is less then the amount of immature six points...hence the rational of an increased restriction to 4 on a side. Also their understanding of basic whitetail behavior tells them that larger mature bucks should in theory sire a great percentage of off spring....and in theory smaller racked bucks both mature and immature should be less adapted then their larger racked counterparts.
Modern deer management has NOT been very successful in my state. Because the DNR did not understand the numbers and how they worked, they GROSSLY overestimated populations and our hunting took a dive. As this was happening I and others tried to get them to see the errors; they ignored us, but thankfully, are now unemployed. You are not quite accurate on what we have control over. Anyone on public land can attest to the fact that they cannot control nutrition in the least. And all else being equal, the better genetics will still produce the better deer. So your best bet is to produce some big boys, then help them survive longer. You are also wrong about larger mature bucks siring more young. Population density will have a much greater effect on how many does a quality buck will breed than his size. Thinning the herd, removing the smaller bucks, will greatly improve his reproductive success. You have to get away from thinking deer management is a set, static set of conditions; it is not. At key times in a deer management plan, culling poor bucks and leaving quality deer will reap huge rewards and if you overlook it, you will have smaller bucks on average.
Our 3pt and 4pt on one side regulations are hurting the chances of our 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer with good racks make it to the next year. Nearly everyone who hunts up here is going to shoot a buck but many would opt for a spike or forkhorn to fill the freezer early in the season and be done with it. Now all good potential bucks are the main target and they are not large by any means. However the Main thing that Irks me about these regulations is the fact that the state is essentally dictating that we all become 'trophy' hunters and teach this to our kids. I personally bowhunt so I have the option of filling those tags with does wheras 90% of the guys here do not bowhunt and therefor must kill bucks. These regualtions have nothing to do with maintaining a healthy herd and all to do with money and bigger bucks for everyone - even though the restrictions work against very large bucks being available in the future. I believe that it should be your choice if you want to hunt trophy deer or just any deer for meat...I know a lot of guys who were passing on 16-17 inch spread 8pts a few years ago who will not pass now as that may be the only 'legal' buck they see since they cannot shoot a spike or fork to fill the tag and freezer. A true trophy buck is one who got old by being smart and perhaps his rack is record class or maybe not - but growing bigger deer by allowing stupid young ones to survive a couple more years just because they don't have enough points yet means you are prob'ly just shooting someones handfed pet basically. Please don't get me wrong - I like to shoot bucks with big racks as much as anyone but raising that buck from when he's in spots to 3.5 or 4.5 yrs old, feeding him, and seeing him nearly 3-4 times every week for all that time, and then harvesting him is no different than butchering the hog in the pen...takes no effort at all and the experience is a whole lot less exciting than working hard and getting a buck that got old by total avoidance of people and the places they frequent. AnD -baiting/feeding should be illegal - at least during open hunting seasons.
We've have a 4pt on a side restriction for 10 years now. I have yet to see any giant 6 points walking around.
In my area they have had 3pts on one side rule for around 10 years now. I personally love it. I wish we had 4pts to a side rule. Sure its not perfect, but I think its the best thing they can do. I wish they would work a little harder on better food on public land...but, at least around my cabin in pike co, they do some work, so its better then nothing. Letting hunters kill whatever they want didnt do anything good, people shot way to many spikes and fork horns. And like you said, going by age is not practical. nor is going by spread or anything like that, so theres not to many options other then counting points. Most (not all) in the state have seen great improvements and PA is harvesting some real slammers these days. The southwestern areas where its 4pt on one side is really showing off big. As for so many big 6pts running around, you couldnt take them out before when you were aloud, so I doubt being able now will change anything. If you really have that many big old mature 6pts, talk to your local game warren and show them proof, maybe they can figure something out. But, I have never heard of an area with a large amount of huge 6pts. And somethin like 60% on genetics come from the doe, so I wouldnt worry to much about them passing that all over the place. You guys will be fine Im sure.
