We must remember that deer management by our officials has less to do with hunters and more to do with traffic safety and insurance dollars for most of us. My landowner is on my insurance companies board and just returned from the annual meeting and that was the biggest problem they cited, still too many deer. They need and want deer numbers low but still be able to have a herd that will bring hunters to the woods and buying tags. But here in my area, we are still over run by deer. On our farm alone we are averaging about 50 killed a year for the last 5 years on 600+ acres.
It is rather pathetic that you have been banned from a site for providing an alternative viewpoint... is that not one of the cornerstones of free speech? Your arguments for deer declines appear sound in my experience and I would conclude similar issues face Ontario EXCEPT that tag numbers have not been reduced thus compounding the issue. I would also add that agricultural practices have removed so much natural habitat for yield maximization, that connectivity issues abound affecting all forms of wildlife from deer to monarchs and milkweed. This system is indeed heavily flawed, as many unfortunately are. T
Agreed, but there is another issue involved that I don't dare say on this thread. The spin to justify the "use" is just that....spin. Could explain in a PM. Also....notice how there were no extra tags available south of WMU 88....but there was north of that. The MNR had this *** backwards....but they didn't cancel the extra shotgun season they have in November.....of all times to have one.
Muzzy pretty much summed up my thoughts on our situation here in PA. They're dropping allocations, but our unit still ALWAYS sells out of doe tags during the first round. The first year we had a two week concurrent doe season with our rifle season, one of our neighbors had 12 people hunting his 30+ acres. They were pushing and shooting everything. That one morning 8 of them had a doe. This continued for a few years and has since all but stopped as I do believe numbers are dropping a bit. Granted, we are doing pretty well for ourselves due to lack of hunting pressure in the immediate area, but from ancedotal evidence of other hunters in our area, and from what I'm seeing at our cabin just 15 minutes north of here is that many hunters in this area will shot ANYTHING if it's legal.
I have written on several occasions to the MNR while returning my hunter survey data at then of the season. IN short... too many tags being issued indent enough deer to SUSTAINABLY support the tag allocations (given other stresses - pointed out by others). No reply or change in tag numbers.... I understand they are faced with budget cut backs, reduced personnel etc but these changes should not be affected by those constraints. T You should say anything you want on this thread...
My comments on the other site were around deer drives. I just stated that maybe they should prohibit them for the first few days just to give the guys who prefer to sit a chance to hunt their preferred way before pushing deer everywhere. I know lots of people get disgusted with getting their spot blown up at 9AM by drivers. Anyway. I don't look down on anyone's method of hunting or what they decide to kill. It just baffles me how you always hear folks complaining about the number of deer in their area, but they still buy as many tags as they can and fill as many as they can. The other big issue I saw right from the begiining in PA is how the commission seperated the state into management units. Some units it worked, while others, only half the unit. The units were so large that in the south for example, there were always plenty of deer while in the north, it was always very thin. Yet the areas were managed the same way. I think it ultimately comes down to the hunters however. If you don't agree with how things are being done and frustrated by lack of deer, don't buy a tag or don't squeeze the trigger. But thats easier said than done in a climate where "if I don't, someone else will". I honestly don't have much to complain about. I'm thankful to have access to good private ground that we manage very well. We have good deer numbers and good bucks every year. I just feel bad for those that aren't as fortunate.
I grew up in Ohio and my Dad and Uncle still live and hunt there. I must take exception to a couple of your statements above. First off, even when the doe tags were plentiful, the most deer either of them (or myself when I lived there) ever took in a season was 2 deer. Some seasons it was 1 and other seasons it was 0. A lot more 1 and 0 seasons than 2 seasons. None of us ever met anyone who took 6 or 7 deer in a year. Maybe 3 at the most. So I don’t think there are very many hunters filling that many tags. Second, banning gun hunting for a year is the wrong approach. There is the economic hit that the state would take not to mention that you would effectively be telling a large group of hunters that they can’t hunt unless they do it your way and get archery equipment. There are probably more gun hunters than archery hunters. What would you think if they all got together and decided to ban archery hunting for a year? The right approach would be to leave the gun seasons as they are and go back to buck only if the herd needed to recover. That way, everybody could still hunt and enjoy the outdoors. As hunters, I don’t believe we should be banning anyone and making enemies among our ranks who will then in turn not show up at the ballot box and support hunting when we need them to. Third, getting rid of the muzzleloader seasons is also a bad idea. For example, my Dad worked in a boiler room where they had to have coverage 24/7 – 365. Only one guy could take vacation at a time. If 2 or 3 of his coworkers also were deer hunters, only one of them could take off for the main gun season. Without the early and late muzzleloader seasons, he wouldn’t get to hunt at all some years. By having the season spread out, it allows everyone a chance. Last, to this statement “Too many people go out with a gun and whack anything they see”. Ok, as long as it’s legal, so what? If an adjustment needs to be made, limiting doe tags and/or making some areas buck only are the way to control the population. Not doing away with gun season. I don’t get putting down people that shoot a doe or small buck with a gun. Due to work and/or their family situation, someone might only get to hunt a couple of days a year and don’t have the luxury of passing deer after deer waiting for one that you approve of. Not everyone is out there to shoot a 150” (or 130” or 120” or whatever arbitrary number you come up with) buck. A lot of people like to eat deer meat. That’s why they hunt. Not for antlers. A lot of people also don’t have the time to dedicate to archery to practice and spend the time in the woods to hold out for that mature buck. I gun hunt and archery hunt both. To me, a hunter is a hunter regardless of the method. We shouldn’t be looking at ways to stop gun hunting or taking an us vs them attitude. That’s what the antis want. Hunters pitted against hunters. That is their wet dream. Please don’t give them what they want.
1. The common sentiment I've heard from a lot of people is You should be killing every doe you see because "you'll see more bucks," and then they follow with a short speech about QDM practices. I'm not a member of QDMA but if that's what they preach they're idiots. 2. Hunter numbers across the country are declining as reflected by license sales. IMO with the antler worship that is taking place and constant product pimping new hunters get frustrated when they don't constantly see and tag P/Y deer every time out, and the older hunters are getting fed up with being told they need expensive gadgets, camo and sprays to kill an animal we've been killing for the past 100,000 years with little more than a stick and string. This one guy I know took his 9 year old hunting on a youth hunt. Kid shot at a nice 8. Probably a good 2.5 year old possibly a 3.5 year old. Land owner gave him hell and the kid hell because that deer "was gonna be a real shooter next year." When the hunting opportunities and traditions of today are gone tomorrow hunters will only be able to blame themselves.
I I was to kill every deer I was allowed here in Tennessee I could kill 8 does and 3 bucks a year. I usually kill around 3-4 deer a year. So far this year it's only been 3. I'm not a trophy hunter by any means, more of a meat hunter I guess you could say. Middle TN is eat up with deer. From Sept. 27th to Jan 4th you can shoot 3 does per day if you want...lol. Which sounds insane, but Unit L is eat up with deer. Unreal at the amount they have. I live in Unit A which doesn't have that amount, but our biggest problem isn't how many "Hunters" kill, it's the amount of Poachers we have....which is unreal! I wish we had a way to track the road hunters...lol. I bet they kill an unreal amount of deer, which you know probably most of them aren't even checked in. My season end basically about the middle of November...cause that is when Rifle season opens and the main road hunting starts. The road on the backside of my property sounds like the interstate highway.
Our gun season just wrapped up today and I spoke with a guy I knew since I was a kid at a gas station this morning. He said he basically didn't see any deer most of the two weeks but he was able to fill all three of his tags. Kind an oxymoron of a statement. This is the mentality of many here in PA. I bought the tag, it means I'm entitled to fill them. The narrow mindedness of hunters across the state blows my mind. Also heard that two guys my brother works for shot a 5 and 6 point on ground they hunt. This ground is BIG buck central and most who have access to it have no problems killing a decent 8 or better during rifle. I don't know. As I said, to each their own.
exactly, in wisconsin we had a CDW zone where they passed out 4 tags a day, i have a coworker who shot 6 doe off of 60 achers last year and complained this year he hardly saw deer
deer numbers are not necessarily declining, they have been held artificially high for years and just starting to level back out to historic normal levels..
