Critique my form

Discussion in 'Intro to Bowhunting & Archery' started by Ranger Pat, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:30 PM.

  1. Ranger Pat

    Ranger Pat Newb

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Form vid:


    I just started archery one month ago, I began on a 45# SB-1 and recently got a halon 32 at 70# for a sweet deal. I shoot around 100-200 arrows a day and am beginning to get some pain in both my AC joints(top of the shoulder). I'm not sure if that's just because its 70 lbs with so many arrows, or if its something wrong with my form. Either way, i'm completely obsessed with shooting compound so I want to correct it early. The only thing I see (with my limited expertise) is that I drop my draw shoulder down to load my back, so I get a clean release. I'm unsure if this should be done before I begin my draw.I'm a real stickler for form and am very disciplined in my training, so anything no matter how small will be addressed in my daily training. More post for help on my first white tail season will be coming soon if that interests y'all. Apologies for the poor video quality, my camera might as well be a potato. If its too hard to tell what I'm doing in the video I will take another one with a better camera at the range on Thursday, just let me know.Thanks in advance!


    RLTW,

    -Pat
     
  2. slickbilly-d

    slickbilly-d Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Posts:
    840
    Likes Received:
    895
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Indiana
    I have pain after shooting that many arrows at 70lbs. I, too, hunt with a 70# Halon 32, but bought a separate bow for 3d and indoor. I separated my AC joint in my bow arm shoulder racing dirt bikes and never got it fixed. I also noticed when I was shooting my Halon 32 a whole bunch, my back was hurting on the draw arm side as well. If I shoot 50-60 arrows a day with it, I’m fine. More than that, I think it’s just too much
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  3. slickbilly-d

    slickbilly-d Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Posts:
    840
    Likes Received:
    895
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Indiana
    See if this series of vids help you.
     
    CToutdoorsman and Ranger Pat like this.
  4. Ranger Pat

    Ranger Pat Newb

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Ok, Ill keep that in mind, still have the SB-1, so I can just use that every other day or once I start feeling it. I have seen the School Of Nock videos, Im starting the bow hunting tradition in my family, so John Dudley has pretty much been filling the father role of teaching me how to shoot. Thanks for the info Slickbilly!
     
  5. John T.

    John T. Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Posts:
    219
    Likes Received:
    68
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    To me, your upper body is leaning back to compensate for the high draw weight. Obviously, shoulder pain will happen if you shoot a lot of arrows at one time. My suggestion is to lighten the draw weight and work up to the 70 lb. I have an old Bear Whitetail bow that is a maximum of 55 lb. DW with 50% let-off. In my younger years when I shot a lot, I had no trouble drawing it back to full draw. Now, after years of laying off, I can only draw the 45 setting with difficulty. I had to switch to my son's LH bow and back off to 40 lb. and am working up to the 45 setting. Adding a link here. Keep in mind, Korean archers are some of the best in the world. One would need to be disciplined to go through this series of exercises.
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4DDFE216CC6D6A77E0B64DDFE216CC6D6A7&FORM=VIRE
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  6. Fix

    Fix Die Hard Bowhunter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Posts:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    2,271
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Western NY
    I agree to lesson your draw weight and shoot less. I'll add in to do lawn mower exercises and they focus on the exact muscles you use whilst drawing. Good luck and show us progress.
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  7. John T.

    John T. Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Posts:
    219
    Likes Received:
    68
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    "I'll add in to do lawn mower exercises"
    I can send my address; have a riding mower, trimmer and push mower.:evilgrin:
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  8. Ranger Pat

    Ranger Pat Newb

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I can start them. However, cardio wasn't included in the "things to change/do list", so that's where my labor stops! haha.
     
  9. Mod-it

    Mod-it Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Posts:
    58
    Likes Received:
    27
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    I'm no expert, but to me it looks like you're leaning back at the waist which is usually a sign of too long of a draw length. I know no one likes to hear that since so many are obsessed with fps (my short draw length self included). The nock of the arrow should sit directly below your sighting eye in most cases for proper draw length. I also can't tell if the string is just touching your nose or is back behind it. Sometimes subject to how a person anchors and if they are leaning back quite a bit at the waist, but in most cases if the string comes past the tip of your nose it is also a sign that draw length is too long.

    I can't see your feet, but it looks like your left (back) leg is also angled back...possibly for extra stability to help compensate for leaning back at the waist? It could just be your stance, but like I said I can't see if you are using a square, open, or closed stance. From the angle of your legs it looks like your feet are a bit too far apart.
    The best way for someone to evaluate your form from a picture is to stand in front of a wall with a piece of tape across the wall that is level. Have someone take a picture of you at full draw and anchored. Have the picture taker let you know where to hold the bow so that the arrow is level/straight with the piece of tape behind you. Need to be able to see your feet in the pic. Feet should be shoulder width apart.

    My understanding of proper form:
    Majority of people are going to be a square stance or open stance as far as their feet go. Feet shoulder width apart with even weight on them (experts always shoot from level ground lol). With your feet shoulder width apart when you are drawn and anchored you should be able to draw a line straight up from center of your feet that goes through the center of your waist and center of your chest. Your shoulders should be in line with each other and form the top of a perfect "T". Bow hand should be relaxed as it would be when hanging at your side (fingers not gripping the bow or being held out away from the bow), with bow anchored about halfway between the "lifeline" line on your hand and the meaty part below your thumb. Thumb should be pointing towards the target and your other finger's knuckles will form a 45° angle . Bow arm fairly straight but not "locked" and inside crease of your elbow almost straight up and down (perpendicular to ground). Bow shoulder even with drawing arm shoulder (your bow shoulder is lower than drawing shoulder). Drawing arm should horizontal with the arrow and elbow should be even or higher than your wrist (experts say higher than your wrist, but I sure can't get mine to do that with a wrist release without consciously raising my shoulder way up). String at the end of your nose and nock directly under your eye. Constant back tension (imagine trying to bring your shoulder blades together when starting to execute the shot). When the shot goes off it should surprise you, and good follow through will have you not gripping the bow right after the shot resulting in the wrist strap saving it from falling to the ground and the bow rotating forward (top cam rotating away from you). Drawing arm will fly backwards from applying constant tension and then having the tension surprisingly relieved.

    Now with all of that being said...
    I believe that as long as everything is done the same every time, anchor points are consistent, the shot is comfortable for you, the bow is tuned properly, and the arrow spine is correct, well then a person can consistently shoot a bow pretty darn accurately. Especially for hunting.
    I do believe you have too long of a draw length. You are experiencing some soreness, but whether its from shooting too many arrows per day too soon, being kind of contorted out of shape from too long of a draw length, or a combination of both I can't for sure say. But listen to what your body is telling you or you could face a lingering injury.
    Here is a link to a picture of good form:
    https://www.bing.com/images/search?...ure&selectedindex=7&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 4:15 PM
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  10. slickbilly-d

    slickbilly-d Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Posts:
    840
    Likes Received:
    895
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Indiana
    [​IMG] [​IMG] Mod-it pretty well nailed it. This is a terrible pic bc it’s off angle and sepia, but my wife had a new camera and wanted to mess around with it, but here’s the idea behind it. My stance is slightly open, my eyes and draw arm are parallel with the arrow, and the nock is pretty much below the corner of my eye. This is an uphill shot and the camera isn’t square so it’s not the best example but hopefully you get the idea. I contacted nuts&bolts on archery talk and he helped me correct some things, but I feel like Dudley’s school of nock can do the same thing. This is how nuts&bolts helped me [​IMG]
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  11. Mod-it

    Mod-it Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Posts:
    58
    Likes Received:
    27
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    Slickbilly-d's pic is a great one showing proper form. Yes it's not ideal since the camera isn't perpendicular to the shooter and the target isn't level with him, but it's still easy to see that his draw length fits him properly and his stance is excellent. Nuts&Bolts is great at breaking down a shooters form IMO. If you (OP) seek him out, I will say that archerytalk tends to have quite a bit of drama and several chest-beaters, but ignore the other posts and focus on what Nuts&Bolts has to say and you'll be better off in the end.
    The reason you want to correct your form now, before you develop bad habits that'll be tough to break, is because the stability of proper form will give you the best "float" of your pin, or rather lack thereof, which will result in your being able to squeeze the shot off and have it surprise you when it happens. Otherwise you'll have a pin that bounces around a lot on you and you'll have to set the bow off purposely when the pin passes by the bullseye. This results in anticipating the shot, flinching, and a lot of "flyers". Sure you'll have some good strings of shots, but will also experience one out of the group more often.
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  12. Ranger Pat

    Ranger Pat Newb

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the in depth analysis Mod-it. I'm still really new to shooting a bow so when I started with the SB1 I had my draw length at 27". That was way too short and uncomfortable, so I did the arm span calculation at my bow shop and it landed at 28.5". the Halon 32 is currently at 29" but the D-loop also is adding about 1/2". I think you're right, the draw length may be an issue. I'm going down to the shop tomorrow to get it turned down to 60#, the draw to 28.5" with the d-loop and the string turned so the peep aligned now that the string has been broken in. Ill get in contact with Nuts&Bolts over the weekend and see if dropping the draw length helped. Once again, Thanks Slickbilly and Mod-it for all the info! Also, I'm gonna put a picture in at full draw so y'all can see what it looks like without the loss of quality. VideoCapture_20190613-113901.jpg
     
  13. John T.

    John T. Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Posts:
    219
    Likes Received:
    68
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    However, perfect form goes out the window when we are contorted around a tree stand or shooting from the ground and trying to shoot through an opening in the brush. The NASP instructor's booklet has good information on form along with photos. I tend to shoot from an open stance.
    Reminds me- need to set up the target and shoot today!
     
  14. Mod-it

    Mod-it Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Posts:
    58
    Likes Received:
    27
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    That's a much better picture.
    What you say goes with the draw length being too long. The arm span and divide by 2.5 gets you pretty close normally give or take a half inch. If you came out at 28.5" but are shooting the bow at 29", plus about the 1/2" that a d-loop adds, then bingo that's why you're leaning back so much. A whole inch over draw length is a lot! I will also say though that the better picture is showing that the arrow is angled up slightly due to the target being an uphill shot, which will result in your leaning back at the waist some too like you're doing. So not all of the lean is from the too long of a draw length. The good news about that is that your adjusting properly for an un-level shot. You want to bend forward at the waist for a down hill shot and bend back at the waist for an uphill shot, rather than raising or lowering your bow arm.
    I'm a 28" draw length and actually have to set my bow for 27.5" to accommodate the d-loop. I'd suggest you have the bow set at 28" and have the d-loop only as long as necessary to comfortably get the jaws of your release into it easily, which usually results in about a 1/2". This should get you right at the 28.5" length you measured out at.
    As far as draw weight that really comes down to what's comfortable for you. Don't be afraid to play around with it a bit and find what poundage results in the best "float" for you. It is very easy to adjust, you just need to make sure you turn both limb bolts the same amount and of course don't back if off so far that the limb bolt doesn't have enough threads holding it in the pocket. Normally you can safely go down 10 lbs from what the limbs are rated at. If you don't have a poundage gauge you can have the shop set it at 60 lbs. to start. You could play around with it going up one turn at a time on both bolts and find what feels the best. Once you settle in at your desired poundage I'd time & tune the bow at that setting.
    I'll also throw in a suggestion about throwing 100-200 shots a day. That's fine if they're all comfortable...but if it results in pain, fatigue/lots of shaking, then that is just making poor practice for you and can result in bad habits (best case scenario) or an injury (worst case scenario).
    It is better to practice solely thinking about form with ample time between shots that don't result in lots of shaking/fatigue. 20 shots of good practice is better than 200 shots of bad practice.
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  15. John T.

    John T. Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Posts:
    219
    Likes Received:
    68
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Definitely. A fellow NASP coach says- Practice makes perfect but perfect practice is better.
     
    Ranger Pat likes this.
  16. Ranger Pat

    Ranger Pat Newb

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Thanks for all the help Mod-it! I was shooting at 60yds in the pic, so I do need to lean back a bit to get my pin on(I had not thought of that till you said it). In the future for form pictures/videos ill shoot at 10 yards so there is no change in my standard form. Yeah, I agree in Ranger Battalion we always use to say " Perfect practice makes perfect". Its raining today, so I cant go shoot, but ill be out there slinging some arrows all weekend! Hope y'all have a good one and thanks again for all the help!
     
  17. John T.

    John T. Weekend Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Posts:
    219
    Likes Received:
    68
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    To get your pin on target, lean back or raise the bow?
     
  18. Ranger Pat

    Ranger Pat Newb

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I lean back/forward to adjust for any change in height. Then I focus on the target and back tension once my pin is sitting on what I'm looking at.
     

Share This Page