Well I read Life At Full Draw...it was a great read...a must read for anyone who loves adventure. For the most part Chuck is a decent guy from what I read. He is a hell of bowhunter, no body can refute that. He has worked hard to get opprotunities to be where he is and according to the book, where he is is not where you may think.. He's not wealthy, he's able to hunt and go as he pleases, but his hunting is his living. He is not raking in the $$ however. His accomplishments are unbelieveable, I had no idea of the seriousness of his accomplishments..a lot of people say that given the same chance they could do it just like Chuck...I doubt it. Just the physical side of what he does alone would kick most of our asses. Not to mention the mental part.. How many of us could actually go into the Alaskan wild for 21 days straight and hunt from light to dark? or go to the artic for 2 weeks to kill a muskox in -45 degree weather?? Not many, certainly not me. Overall, Chuck deserves his place in the Hall of Fame and quite frankly, he's the best bowhunter alive today that we "know" about. The only thing I don't like is that 3 of his 7 P&Y whitetails were taken in a high fence before 2001. Tha's the only thing I dislike about his accomplishments....other than that, he's the man!
Met him last year at the Harrisburg Outdoor Show. We talked for about 45 minutes then watched his seminar. Very impressive gentleman. Quite small too I might add.
Not true, they would not be recognized as P&Y deer but rather P&Y "caliber". SCI accepts deer from "estates" and I'm sure this is where they are recorded. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Some of my hardest hunts have been behind high fence-had my arse handed to me. I consider it fair chase if the animal has the ability to elude it pursuer for extended periods of time. I'm sure Chuck feels the same way. There's a time and a place...Chuck is not trying to snow anyone, but he is a complete hunter. He's been there, done that. It would be interesting to know the details behind these three hunts
Jeff, I was placed in a similar situation here in Colorado. A good friend had a high fence operation in Mesa County. He decided to take the fence down (he contracted cancer and could not deal with the issues any longer). I (and nine others) spent three days hunting six bulls on the 2500 acre spread. The oak brush was so thick. You were luck to catch a glimps yet alone get a shot. They ended up killing all six bulls from the air in a helicopter. I've learned to avoid generalizations-some things are not as they appear.
I don't have the book, it's loaned out at the moment, but in the last few chapters he said that 3 of his 7 were killed in a high fence area...the P&Y quit accepting these animals after 2001 according to the book. Look, I don't care if someone does it, I just don't think it's for me and if an animal is killed behind a high fence it should not be recorded in the P&Y books, but to honest I could careless if if people do it, just don't include em in the books.
I told ya that the book would open your eyes to the type of hunter Chuck is. He is quite dedicated to say the least. Now if all the Chuck bashers would read the book they would probably feel quite stupid about some of their comments.
Sorry Jeff, nothing implied. It was more of a reminder to myself... Landon, Hypothetically speaking, let’s say you have two 900 acre parcels of land on which you can to hunt, and you’re targeting a particular deer-say a 150 class deer. All else being equal, the only difference between the two parcels…one is high fenced and the other is not. A mature buck, according to “experts”, has a home range of 300 acres (i.e. he’s going to stay right there) and for much of the year he’s nocturnal. Stay with me... According to Skippy308’s recent poll, 82% of hunters hunt from tree stands. I’m assuming most proficient hunters have an effective range of 40 yards. Thus, they can cover an area approximately (3.14 x 60 feet squared) 1256 square yards, or .2677 acres of the 900. Obviously then, the special secret trick for being successful in both scenarios is stand placement, right? If the deer is coming to you, what difference does the fence make? It's not like you're "pinning" them if they can clearly move in and out of your kill zone,eh? With these circumstances, I guess I'm not following the logic behind some hunter's distaste for high fence. It cannot be deer numbers either. I mean, 899 deer can occupy every acre but yours... Why is one place easier than the other? Can you help me with this? What am I missing? Not an attack...just trying to understand. Thanks
Will, I think the issue is more one of population, breeding and genetic control. The high fence operation has a better chance of playing God and producing a high percent of trophy quality deer while the free range guys are dealing with what nature provides in the way of trophy animals. Thus, the high fence hunter has a better chance of taking a record book animal but those animals aren't reflective of the natural population for that species. I think that's why people don't want them included in the book. Otherwise I totally agree with your argument on the hunting aspect.
I can see that Rob, to a degree. When I hunted the Texas low fence, I was severely restricted to a particular size deer-145 or better. And, inferior management buck were culled on site. So isn't the practice being executed in both arenas? Maybe it's just Texas, but I don't think so. You're going with me one year...by the way. You'll get a kick out of seeing all those low fence deer.
It's not impossible to do without the high fence but you need to have control over both your herd and your hunters. Texas is a semi-unique situation where the ranch owners have control over both on vast tracts. It'd be near impossible to accomplish the same thing in Upstate NY or Ohio. Agreed. Pecaries beware!
Point taken... It boils down to private vastness. All bets off when control is lost... "Agreed. Pecaries beware!" LOL...I'll start working on it!
Will...why don't P&Y and the B&C accept animals killed behind high fences? If there is no advatage, then why is it there? Not being a smart ass, I want to know your opinion on it. I agree, some places are huge and fenced, you would never know the fence is there, but it is and there is a reason for it. If you took/take a record deer behind a fence and you don't feel a bit cheated, then that's on you..I have no problem with you doing it...I choose to not to because I wouldn't feel that I did it in a natural state...Again, this is my 2 cents...Im a nobody. No disrespect to you Will, you know you have mine.
No disrespect taken Landon. This is how we learn what makes others tick. Will...why don't P&Y and the B&C accept animals killed behind high fences? Mine would be spectulation at best Landon. I think it's a serious perception thing that could be overcome with a asterick-similar to how P&Y denotes kills taken with bows having letoffs over 65%. Vastness would be key. Why would they allow a bait hunter to enter his kill if baiting was not legal across America? How is that fair? I mean, I have to spot and stalk my deer here in Colorado-no bait allowed. Is my deer more or less of a trophy than the one taken over a pile of corn-an obvious advantage given to some and not to others? If there is no advatage, then why is it there? Because nobody has really given that much thought to "fair Ambush". They have the "fair chase" stuffed covered Not being a smart ass, I want to know your opinion on it. I agree, some places are huge and fenced, you would never know the fence is there, but it is and there is a reason for it. I have personally witnessed animals moving about freely through fence. As a matter of fact, on that 2500 acre ranch I referenced earlier, six spike bulls and three cows were also shot via the helicopter. They weren't supposed to be in there but they were. In Africa, I watched three bull eland clear a high fence like it wasn't even there, and they did so for no apparent reason other than to get to the other side. I could go on telling you story after story... If you took/take a record deer behind a fence and you don't feel a bit cheated, then that's on you..I agree, we all must draw the line somewhere. I guess for me, I question the validity of those 82% screaming foul I have no problem with you doing it...I choose to not to because I wouldn't feel that I did it in a natural state Could you kill something confined by water? How would you feel if the deer was driven to you? What's natural about that? Such deer are entered annually....Again, this is my 2 cents...Im a nobody. No disrespect to you Will, you know you have mine. Thanks Landon, I appreciate your comments..."I'm a nobody"-ha, hardly! You are a friend. I will always welcome you at my campfire. Finally, don't let a few deer trip you up when it comes to Mr. Adams. I know for a fact he's the complete deal!
I've always had respect for Adams...when I first got into Archery - the commercialization was really ramping up...I always wondered why the guy didn't endorse more - I think he could have demanded good money...I always assumed the reason being that he was just too dang busy planning, scouting, hunting to even care - just doing enough to support his passion. I'm sure I'd enjoy the read someday.
Those are very good questions to me Will. Some I just don't have an answer to. Im not sure how I feel about the driving to kill deer. I live in a state where dog hunting for deer is very much a tradition and very much alive.. in fact I have killed numerous deer in front of dogs, I was raised on it, but I have always felt like it was not an accomplishment. I think this is why I have become such a sucker for the bow and arrow over the last several years..I still do the dog thing b/c it's more of a fellowship and it is not taken seriously by me. I can see your point. Thanks Will, you are a class act.
Take the record books with a grain of salt guys, the high fence issue isn't the only gray area. Anyone have higher than 65% letoff? Well you can get in now, but with an asterisk. Use a lighted nock? That is cheating in the highest form, and thus not worthy of P&Y status. I realize they do more good than harm, and its a private club so play by their rules or dont play at all....I just wish some of the DUMB rules were removed. Lighted nocks don't help you kill deer, they just help you judge how to accurately take up the track on one and assess where you hit. Why on earth would a bowhunting org PENALIZE you for that?
