If you move grip toward string you decrease draw length and brace. Irrelevant, grip change does not change powerstroke. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
Zedd, you're a contractor. For $20-30, you can build yourself a draw board, then another $30 for a scale and you can map your ow draw force curve. That may be the only way to settle it for you. That or shoot a 5 shot group through a chrono with your grip and straight off the riser. Then compare the averages of each group. You can move those points of contact all you want. The bow's string is still coming to rest and peaking at the same time. They are storing the same amount of energy as you haven't modified how much string/cable is being taken up. You're just changing YOUR DL, not the bows. Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1
Your maths is sort of right, in fact I had to read it twice. The theory you have there is almost correct (in one way). But what you haven't recognised is that the change to brace height is only a superficial one, the actual bh hasn't changed. A shorter brace height does usually mean faster, but that's because when the bow is designed the brace height is set shorter meaning that you draw more string through the cams and more energy is stored in the limbs. If what you were doing was decreasing bh by moving the limb tips (with the same poundage) towards the riser you would be right, because that would actually increase power stroke, or if you were drawing more string through (longer dl) the power stroke would be longer because you have increases the distance from full draw to brace, but changing how far apart your hands are on the bow doesn't actually affect how far the string travels from full draw to brace. Think about this, using that maths I should be able to draw my bow using the dish at the front of my 12" stabilizer as the grip, which would make my dl about 42" ( and give me the longest power stroke/fastest zxt on the planet), but it doesn't work that way Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
Wow you're making this more complicated than it has to be. If he didn't adjust his draw length (as I understand he is not) it won't change anything. If he did adjust his draw length then yes he would gain. It's that simple. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I would say if you dont like the handle then you normally dont buy that bow. Just my 2 cents. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
This is exactly what I did. I went with the new PSE Surge. While the speed is modest at 320, my groups where tight on the one I shot at Cabelas, I really like the grip, the bow was very smooth with a nice backwall, and I figure with the right arrow setup I will be able to take down anything I want. I went through a local pro shop (Garland, TX) to get the color, black, I want and to get excellent assistance from those folks on tuning the bow with a QAD Ultra, truglo 5pin. Anyway, this has been very helpful, if only to increase my understanding of what is involved in such a simple thing as the grip. Stickandstring was right, my drawlength would have to increase to get the very modest boost to velocity.
Glad we could help bud. Now quit thinking so much and go shoot! Have fun and enjoy it. The knowledge will come with the experience. Believe me. I know. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'd just order a wood grip (Mission can give you a wood version that fits their bows as we did it on my wife's) or some other good brand that fits and get a new draw length module. Seems pretty simple LOL
Yeahhh, I've been accused of over thinking things. My new bow comes in tomorrow, but I will be out of town till monday...
Given my obvious newness, and recognizing I have solved this problem by going to a different bow where I actually like the grip. I am still missing something. An understanding of what happens during a draw cycle and how it affects bow performance includes: (please correct and/or add other factors I miss) velocity of the arrow balance of the bow before, during, and at hold position of anchor point accuracy I believe the length of the draw (assuming the nock stays the same) is constant. When measured from where my knuckles curl around the grip to my anchor point is 28". The brace height is the point where my thenar contacts the grip to the string before the bow is drawn. If I put a block of wood 1/2" thick on the grip, my thenar would have to move 1/2" as well. This would have the effect of lowering the brace height 1/2". My actual length of pull (from just in front of my knuckles to my anchor point) can be broken down into 2 parts: the dead zone being the distance between my knuckles and the string before I apply energy pulling the string, and the power zone where I begin pulling back the string to my anchor. This total distance stays the same, so if I reduce the 'dead zone', the difference would have to be made up in the 'power zone'. The longer the power zone, the longer the bow can add energy to the arrow. OR, the distance from the thenar to my anchor point at full draw stays the same, and the stroke could be thought of as space between the thenar to the string at the beginning of the draw + string at relaxed point to my anchor point=a constant number (for the archer). So, if the distance from thenar to the string at the beginning of stroke (also called the brace height) is shortened, then by necessity the distance from string at the relaxed point to anchor point would have to increase. Where am I missing the boat?
Ok so lets take a couple hypothetical bows. You have the same cam, the same riser design but, lets say different limbs. The limbs are shorter on one than the other. This moves a couple of things. Shortens ATA if it isn't a parallel limb bow and moves the brace height forward. The shorter brace height given everything else is the same means you gain the difference in power stroke. Take a 7" brace with a 29" draw. The power stroke will be 22". Take a 6" brace height and you just gained 1" of stroke. It moves the string closer to the main frame work of the bow. Not one small piece of the bow. Your grip would move the string closer to the string at the point of which brace height is measures. What it wouldn't do is move the string closer to the riser itself.
You havn't made any changes to the string travel, and now your logic has gone tail over tits. 1/2 extra on grip would SHORTEN what you would feel at full draw. The actual travel of the string is UNCHANGED. Power stroke is the distance from full draw to brace, and while the distance from the string to the padded out material may be shorter the ACTUAL geometry of you bow is IDENTICAL. Unless you make changes to how far the string goes back, ie longer DL, nothing can change speed wise. If you still don't believe us there is a thread on packing out your grip with cardboard and duct tape, try it and see. Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
Look at it this way... It doesn't matter if you put a block of wood at the back of your grip, a bunch of athletic tape, wear a super thick glove, etc - you aren't changing the power stroke of bow - basically the time that the arrow is on the string and taking on energy... Essentially what you are saying is that you could increase a bow approx 10fps by wrapping 1" worth of athletic tape at the back of your grip... As everyone has pointed out - you haven't changed any aspect of the bow that is going to transfer more energy to the arrow.... Now you could put a 1" block of wood at the back of your grip and then increase your draw length 1", the arrow would then be one the string one extra inch taking on more energy and around 10fps - but that's not what your asking and doesn't seem like a good idea....
