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Carbon = Aluminum

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by MNKK, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. MNKK

    MNKK Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Carbon Arrow Sizing.

    What do the numbers mean (250, 300, 350, etc.)?
    What are the benefits, (if any) over aluminum?
    How about the Carbon AL, shafts. Benefits?

    I really just want to understand them a bit more. I keep reading and reading, but nothing is telling me that they have benefits over AL, and the same for AL over Carbon. I know alot of the products out there are all preference, but these should not be arround if there was no benefits.

    Is this a matter of giving up one thing for gaining another?

    Lets talk...
     
  2. Buck Magnet

    Buck Magnet Die Hard Bowhunter

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    The numbers refer to the spine of the shaft, an Easton Lightspeed 300 will be stiffer in spine than an Easton Lightspeed 400.

    As far as benefits, for the most part, it is personal preferance, I find that carbons are a little longer lasting for myself as they don't bend as easily.
     
  3. KodiakArcher

    KodiakArcher Die Hard Bowhunter

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    The numbers you're referring to are dependent on the manufacturer, a CX200 is weaker than a CX300 but an Easton 300 is stiffer than an Easton 400. What you need to look at is the deflection rating. The Easton shafts use a deflection rating in their numbering which is why lower numbers equal stiffer shafts. The CX numbers for instance are just a model number designator but if you look in their literature you can find a corresponding deflection rating so that they can be compared to other manufacturers. You can also find deflection ratings for aluminum shafts.

    There are many more pluses and minuses to each shaft type but here are the big ones:
    Carbon: The benefits I see to carbon are light weight (grains/inch), and the fact that they're either straight or broken. The pitfalls are that when they break they shatter into nasty little dangerous shards, and that they are often too light (grains/inch), I also haven't been overly impressed with the general straightness and deflection consistency.

    Aluminum: Benefits are that they are relatively inexpensive, they can hold tighter production tolerances (spine, straightness), they are heavy (grains/inch). Pitfalls are that they are heavy, they are large in diameter for a given deflection and they hold a bend.

    A/C: Benefits are that they the best of both worlds in regard to durability and production tolerances. Pitfalls are that they are expensive and they can hold a bend.
     
  4. bowhunter546

    bowhunter546 Weekend Warrior

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    Well put Kodiak. Just wanted to add one thing. If carbon and aluminum arrows have the same exact kinetic energy hitting the target, the carbon is still faster. This speed helps the archer make slightly further shots. That little edge could be a huge difference if the big boy steps out a little further than expected!

    I personally use carbons for my compound and aluminums for my recurve. I find that aluminum shafts react better off a slower string compared to carbon but both react well off fast strings. The speed brought me too the dark side and I will never go back! Why would I?

    If you decide to change to carbons, look at the grains per inch or gpi (Every model is different even between the same company Ex. Beman ICS and ICS Hunters vary slightly.) It quickly turns into a huge mathematical calculation. I do agree its very confusing, but well worth the brain knots and $$$! Good Luck!
     
  5. MNKK

    MNKK Die Hard Bowhunter

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    So, do the A/C shafts take more to bend than regular AL shafts? Can you straighten them? I really want to see a cut out of these. Like a shaft cut at a 45 deg angle?
    Anyone? I'm curious, because I don't want to loose my AL shafts, because of the weight that they carry. They have never let me down. I lost most of my previous set because there was a two year gap from the last time I shot my bow. I forgot that I moved my first pin to the 20yd set. Then I started shooting outdoors. Dman they made some very cool blue sparks though. The rock that I skipped the first one off, showered the tall grass next to it. It started smoldering about two minutes later. I put it out, and quit for the day. Very mad.
    Got new arrows now, but I think I am going to put those with the bow when I have the shop sell it for me. Just keep everything in a package. It should sell faster.

    Also, would someone define spine for me? I don't know if I have it right.
     
  6. KodiakArcher

    KodiakArcher Die Hard Bowhunter

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    A/C's take a LOT more to bend them than a regular aluminum shaft but you can't straighten them, at least I've never had any luck at it. The carbon splits away from the aluminum. As far as a cut-away, it's pretty simply just a hollow aluminum core tube with carbon wrapped around it or a carbon core with aluminum sheathing, not all that complex.

    The spine of the arrow refers to how much it bends away from the centerline of the shaft when it's launched from the bow (overcoming inertia). It is measured in inches of deflection which is standardized as the amount the center of the shaft deflects from straight with a 1# weight hung in the center of a 28" span of shaft. Therefore a 340 deflection rating means that the shaft deflects .340".
     
  7. bowhunter546

    bowhunter546 Weekend Warrior

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    Good stuff Kodiak!
     
  8. MNKK

    MNKK Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Very helpful mister. Thank you.
     
  9. MNKK

    MNKK Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I got some of the FMJ's ordered yesterday. I chose to go one spine up (340) I just wanted that extra umph on my shot.
    To be specific. I will be using...

    FMJ camo 340.
    They should be about 29.75". so that should put me at

    11.3gpi. @ 29.75" = 336.175 grains

    Then you add.

    9 grains for a knock, 16 for the insert, 100 for the tip, and 3 for the BAR. This is a total of 128 grains. (I don't know what 4" feathers weigh, so add those too)

    336.175 + 128 = 464 grains plus! Right? That is cool because that is right where I want to be. 450 gns! FTW!!!
     
  10. KodiakArcher

    KodiakArcher Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I've built that same arrow up for a friend shooting it out of his Drenalin at 29" and 70# except that he is using 125 grain points. He's real happy with his.
     
  11. bowhunter546

    bowhunter546 Weekend Warrior

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    4" feathers weigh 8 grains total for all three (3 - 4" vanes weigh 20 gr)
     
  12. MNKK

    MNKK Die Hard Bowhunter

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    So with a 125gr. tip, and 8grs. of feathers. I am now up to ...

    464 grains + 25 grains + 8 Gr. = 497 +/-gr. Nice!
     
  13. Rob / PA

    Rob / PA Grizzled Veteran

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    This is not necessarily true. If you have a lighter aluminum than carbon, your aluminum will be faster with the same KE of the carbon. It works both ways. Heavier vs lighter depending.

    ;)
     

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