Can you consistently kill mature bucks on a 130 acre property, that's 4 hours from your home?

After this season, I'm really beginning to come to a crossroads with my thoughts on the property I've poured my blood, sweat, and $$$$ into over the last few years. I don't regret getting the property, but I'm really starting to have second thoughts on how realistic it is to expect a 130 acre property in this part of the country, to produce mature (3.5+ y/o) bucks on a consistent basis when your only able to hunt it a few times a year.

Due to the distance (4 hours), I'm only able to get in roughly 20 sits a year at this place. I can't hunt Sundays, or weekdays except for the single week I take off in November, and even then I usually only spend half that week in PA. I'm really thinking that I need to do one of three things with this property. I need to either be happy with shooting 90-100" bucks, spend less time there and focus on other areas closer to home (public ground) that will provide me with more time to scout and hunt more effectively, or start eating tags most of the time if I decide to stay there.

I honestly don't know anyone in central or eastern PA that consistently (I consider consistent 1 out of 3) kills 120"+ 3.5+ y/o bucks. I know of very few (can count them on one hand) that consistently kill the kind of bucks I'm taking in this part of the state. The wood lots in this part of the state are so small, that I'm willing to bet literally every buck encounters pressure every year. Too many hunters, too little cover. This place is the best hunting I've personally ever seen in PA, and even still..........I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that it may just not be possible on a 130 acre patch to get it done consistently on the caliber of bucks I really want to be getting on. We have done the habitat improvements, created bedding and sanctuary, gotten the doe/buck ratio in check, but just aren't seeing the big bucks consistently. We may encounter them occasionally, but last year we saw 2 of them, this year none. The thing that really bothers me, is that the bucks that we are passing (an honest to god 40+ seperate bucks in a 5 year period), we aren't seeing again. Even the 2.5's, and the 3.5's that we encounter and can't get shots at......we simply don't encounter more than once. We simply don't have enough ground to keep them there, and I know of lots of them that others take on the property lines and surrounding properties.

So what do you guys think? Time to look for something I can spend more time getting to know more intimately? Time to start eating tags most years? I really see my 3D shooting winding down over the next few years in the summer, and I'd like to take that time to increase my scouting, etc. A lot of the threads about location have really hit home with me, and I'm wondering if it really makes sense to keep trying to improve this place, or if it's time to do something about it and find a better spot. I know of public areas that get little to no pressure in northern zone NY that are MUCH closer to home, and would allow me to spend much more time scouting, but they are all really big woods areas.......hundreds of thousands of acres of land with no agriculture, defined bedding, or feeding areas.

Your thoughts?

 

It would be hard for me to answer without knowing what your property and the surrounding properties look like. You know, the big picture. Also, what is the age structure like in the herd that is in your area?

It is probably partly a time issue. I wouldn't be able to guarantee myself a good buck in 20 sits, even in some of my better spots.

 

Matt I am in the same situation as you with 159 acres of which half is wooded.
With trespassers and all the activities going on around this piece it just brings me down.
But with that being said prior to 2006 when I got my 168 I thought the same thing
then that happened. Next season I am going to do my best to not pressure it so much early
season and also have my brother do the same thing. Every year I get from him I paid $160
for my out of state license then I feel guilty and let him do what he wants.
I finally told him next season it needs to stop and he was cool with it.
As far as the trespassers if I can catch them I will get the sheriffs.
I went out on a Sunday this past season and I parked my truck and got out
and it sounded like a war in these woods. They were back there firing away
like crazy with guns but by the time I got back there they were gone.
I admit this drive is only about 25 minutes away but its so frustrating.

 

And there is lies the biggest problem, Matt's property is in PA where the deer are slaughtered. One would need 1000 acres here and still hope the neighbors do what we want them to do. Matt has a great property but still has the perils of all PA land owners and that's trespassing, poachers, baiters and neighbors who don't manage for age but rather shoot the first 3 point legal buck that walks by.

 

IMO I would rather have 40 acres in the right spot than 400 in the wrong spot. Like Matt and Rob both said, if the deer simply aren't there and you can't control outside factors (neighbors/other hunters) you're never going to have the quality of hunting that you want to have. Work all you want, plant food plots, create sanctuaries, etc - you've already proven that it doesn't matter, at least not to any degree that you can tell or that makes you happy.

So I think the realy question boils down to what are you really looking for, and what's going to make you happy? If you're content with the way things are, by all means leave them and continue working on your property. If you're not happy (which it sounds like you aren't) then do something about it.

Remember my friend - Go Big or Go Home.

 

Like others have said, even with 130 acres you are HEAVILY dependant on what surrounds your place in order to produce big bucks. Your 130 can't save them. I'm sure you could probably get a good price for it and possibly be able to pick up land in a place more condusive to your goals.
OR keep your plpace and just use it as a nice change of place & relaxation, and search out other places closer to home for potential better hunting opportunities.

 

I have 130 acres that's 3 hours away and I had the same thought as you a few years back. I dumped some time and some money into it and it's starting to produce some good bucks. in the last 5 years I've killed 4 bucks over 110" in the 5 years prior to that all my racks didn't equal 110".Get to know your neighbors and make them one of your hunting buddies.It worked for me my neighbor owns 20 acres but he takes care of mine so he gets to hunt mine too. He keeps an eye on the place like he owns it and he helps in all the yearly chores. He does more than any other of my hunting buddies.It's huge knowing local people that can make a big differance between ok land and great land.

 

Matt, I feel like I have some insight on your situation. My family has 186 acres, bordered on three sides by State Forest. I have been working at putting in small plots and encouraging a more selective harvest by our own hunters for 3 years. In those years, I much like you, got to hunt around 15 to 20 sits up there with minimum scouting. Its only 20 minutes away, so that's my fault I guess. In any event, in the last four years we have seen marked improvement in quality buck harvest. But that improvement only equates to one mature buck a year or so verses a scrub or two every two.

Fast forward to this year, I gain access to 60 acres real close to home, bordered mainly by non hunters who only allow bowhunters to hunt. Granted this is farmland verses mountain, but I saw and had encounters with more good bucks than in my entire life at the cabin. I am able to scout and know my quarry intimately. I can't picture a life without the cabin land to call our "own." But this new thing, is amazing. I blew the one really good shot I had this year, but was so close on many other occasions. I am really looking forward to next year as I have a better plan of attach with a year of hunting on the property. I am closing in on 200 hours in the woods with 85 percent of them being on this new, smaller piece that I was and am able to scout it better than the cabin.

After all that nonsense, I have but one question, if you decide that you can't produce what you want on your PA land, are you selling or settling?

 

I'll keep the land no matter what. It will always be a vacation spot for me (I call it the Men's Crisis Center). There is a good possibility I may move there in a few years, or I may wait and try to retire there someday.

I do think if I put in more time there, I could probably kill a mature buck pretty consistenly. Because of the distance though, I'm lucky to get 20 sits a year in there, plus I'm not able to make a big enough presence to keep the trespassing neighbors off. I only get to hunt Saturdays, plus the week in November that I take off we are usually there for 3-4 days.

If I decide to change something, I may just put less time in there, both during season and the off season. Instead of using this as my main hunting grounds, It will be a place that I hunt one or two times a year and no longer my main hunting grounds. I'll probably turn my plots into perennial plots that only need mowed 1-2 times a year and no other maintenance, vs the high yield brassicas I slave over every year. I'll spend the saved time scouting and hunting closer to home, in the big woods of the Adirondacks, and maybe focus on trying to get out to Ohio for a week every year instead of PA during that week I normally go in Nov. Ohio is only like 6 hours for me, and I'm already driving 4 hours to my place in PA. I know I can get down to SE Ohio (Muskingum, Guernsey, Coshocton county areas) in about 9 hours, and that's not that bad of a drive for a week long trip every year. Over the counter tags, lots of public land, awesome hunting, and now owning a truck that can tow a small camper there make this a LOT more attractive.

 

I'm not sure what you should do with your property, but here is my experience in my area. I hunt a heavily hunted agriculture area in SW Michigan. Like PA, we have a high yearling buck harvest year after year. We were seeing a lot of yearling bucks every year but it wasn't equaling more 2.5s or 3.5s. Sure there were some, but they were few and far between. I started talking to some neighbors this year and found out most of them thought the other guy would shoot a yearling if it was passed. So I did some leg work and got 40 hunters together to start a QDM co-op. We have rougly 3,000 acres included (the final number hasn't been put together yet). We hope this will grow as word spreads in the area. I'm not sure what this will mean for future hunting, but it should only get better. I think this is the single most beneficial thing I've done for this hunting property...at least that is what I'm hoping. Most guys I talked to in the beginning told me they were for it but their neighbor would never go for something like that. So I talked to the neighbor and he would tell me the same thing about the guy I just talked to. So I guess it can't hurt to talk to the neighbors. For all I know you have already done this without any luck.

 

Honestly, Matt, I don't know. I hunt an even smaller parcel of land than you (90acres), and I've really picked up my efforts the last two years. I went from a weekend warrior, to basically putting in a year long effort. I've successfully planted two major food plots on the property (rye, clover, brassica, turnips, and winter wheat). I've put supplements out during early spring. I've cut down on outside pressure (no more ripping around on 4wheelers, motorcycles, nor even any walking through what I believed to be core areas), rotated stands frequently, and hunted only good entry/exit areas. I scouted from January all the way through summer (glassing), and really there was little to any sign of mature bucks on my property. I saw TONS of deer the past two seasons, and quite a few dink 1.5yr olds, but only ONE (count it...ONE) mature sighting in the past two seasons (I almost sealed the deal on that one, too). We're in a weird situation. We have 150 acres that borders us to the East which allows absolutely ZERO hunting (for the past 50 yrs or so). This land has no real sustainable food (with the exception of acorns), but it serves as a sanctuary for the deer. We have permission from them to walk their property, and we also mow their fields. It's not unusual to see 10-20 deer every evening out in their fields simply eating dried hay when there's a lush green food plot not more than a couple hundred yards away on our property. We've jumped some monsters when mowing in the summer as well, yet we never see them on our property. Our neighbors to the South have the advantage of a water source (which we don't). They also put out feeders almost year round. Although they aren't hunting nearly as much anymore, they still manage to take one or two decent bucks a year. To our west is a township road, and the land beyond that is a mixed ownership that I don't know much about. Anyways, my point being, it seems that no matter how hard I try (we have corn, hay, two food plots, and an abundance of oaks), I just can't seem to hold the bucks on my property. I've been putting a lot of leg work in these past few days trying to get a feel for next season, and the buck sign is almost non existent (and I'm walking most of my ground here). Someone mentioned over on HNI when Schultzy brought up a similar scenario that the over abundance of doe will effect mature buck movement. Simply put, the more does available, the less they need to move around to seek them, which is why you see minimal sign. The sign that you do see is mostly 1.5yr olds (which were most of the bucks I saw this season). Even though that's a good explanation for the Rut, why can't I bring mature bucks in during the rest of the year? I feel like I'm doing everything right, but yet, I'm getting no where.

I also have the luxury of time, whereas you don't. I'm not sure how much of an impact you could have even if you were there more. I'm on my ground year round, and I work hard to get deer on here, and keep them here, but so far it's been no dice. What's the answer? I'm really not sure, but I will be seeking out at least one or two more spots to hunt for next year rather than concentrating on just my property.

 

Matt - your problem is that you need to absolutely slaughter the does by any means necessary, and create bedding sanctuary. I'm seeing a 50/50 split on does/bucks at my place now and multiple 2.5 year olds every year, just nothing bigger than 90-100". Before we started killing 4+ does a year consistently, our place was just like yours.

I guess I'm seeing decent bucks on my property compared to anyone else in our part of PA, I really don't know anyone that kills 100"+ bucks consistently, I'm just not sure that satisfies me right now. I may try to venture elsewhere a bit more where the age class of the bucks is a bit better.....

 

I would love a 50/50 split (I would be satisfied with even say a 65/35 split). I know I need to kill more does, and that's my number one priority next season.

I'm assuming the lack of really large mature deer on your property is simply outside influences beyond your control (i.e. neighbors). The area you're in is certainly not known for putting out monster whitetails (heck most areas of PA, aren't known for that). Go one step further and many people in your area as well as mine are complaining about the deer herd being almost non-existent (although I take a lot of that with a grain of salt), so to consistently be taking 90-100" deer each year is very good. If you want better, moving to other locations is probably the best option. Ohio would be a good start:d

 

I met a guy a few years back that was from ILL. He was out here in Idaho elk hunting. My Brother and I struck up a conversation about whitetails after he had initially been quizing us on locating elk. He told us he had the most unbelievable piece of hunting ground, only 55 acres of land but it was nestled in between two huge tracts of heavily mananged whitetail ground. Something like 1500 acres on one side of him and over 2000 on the other that outfitters had tied up. He said during the rut his land was the natural travel corridor for the big bucks and boy did he have some pictures of some hawgs he had killed with his bow. He told me it was almost unfair! Like many have already stated I would take the right piece of land over the size of land especially if you can hunt the right piece a lot during the rut.

This guy was a cool guy and hunted really hard, after hunting for elk for a week in Idaho, he asked us, how on earth do you bowhunt a whitetail out here! We (my bro and I) had some good laughes and gave him some pointers on locating bulls in the mountains.

 

Agreed.

I have been hunting a 250 acre farm for years that would consistently produce big bucks. This particular farm was surrounded by thickets and cut-over for the deer to hide in, however two years ago the surrounding land was bought and cut completely into cow pastures. With all of this open space the deer have pushed off of our land and back in the deep woods where they can hide again. What was once prime hunting ground now it just makes me