Can the water cooler handle two controversial topics? God question...

Not sure? What are they?

 

Google'd.....in what respect? If you have a NDE and you came back and told me that Spongebob is really the Messiah, then no.

But NDEs like God himself involve faith in something you haven't seen. (unless you're the person who had it)

 

What of Muslims?

They worship the same God.

 

Same God, but they don't follow the core belief that Jesus died on the cross for the sin of the world do they?

 

No they don't ....Jesus is the God of Christianity ... Allah is the god of the Muslims .... both name Abraham as their father ... and he was ... Ishmael was conceived through Sarah's handmaid because of Abraham and Sarah's lack of faith in God's promise .... Isaac WAS the son of promise ....

 

No.. you're wrong Tony.

You're looking it through your Christian looking glass.

Allah is the same God as ours.. they just follow a different prophet.

They see Jesus as another prophet and not the one they follow.. just as you see Gabriel as their prophet and not the one you follow.

If anyone was to look at either religions from a non-biased view.. it's the same God... just different prophets being followed.

 

Yes.. in fact they do.

True Muslims (the vast majority) are taught to respect the people of the book (the Bible and the Torah).

But because of the miracle of Muhammad's sudden literation.. they believe in the prophet that occurred 600 years after Jesus for a multitude of reasons.. but the bottom line is they believe in the same God.

In fact, when the Christian world first started the Crusades some 1,000 years ago.. many of those same Christians ended up staying and marrying Muslims once they learned they believed in the same God.. that's why there are literally thousands of peeps in the former state of Palestine with light-skin and green eyes. It's because their great-grandfathers (dating back to that time) were English.. Irish.. etc.

 

This might seem way off base to this thread but I have been thinking of this lately......what kind of heavenly being "lets" young kids develop painful cancer and allows women to be captured, tortured, and killed by serial killers? I know that sounds weird but it has been something I have been thinking of lately.

 

Or lets children have their arms and legs hacked off by machetes in rwanda, or lets rape hotels happen in bosnia, or lets a women be stoned to death for allowing herself to be raped or lets my neighbor die of cancer while pat robertson keeps living... and on and on and on......

Yet a raping murderer can find the "truth", fully believe in it and go to heaven?

I have been thinking about things like this for decades.

I'll go with nothingness or warm miller beers myself.

 

Man's free will.

An interesting topic Brett.

You get religious peeps out there who tell us in one hand that man has free will.. which is why we get some crazies who are bent on suffering another... their individual choice.

Then they tell you on another hand that the end of the world is pre-determined... another individuals choice.

How can it be so.. if God has given man free-will?

When broken down to its most basic form.. free will is 'yes' or 'no'.. 50/50.. and its all in the hands of man.

 

It's all relative ... you can say it's the same God, but not even all those that name the name of Christ worship the true God ... semantics, I suppose ...

Some of the responses on this thread are exactly why I stay out of them any more ..... it's like beating my head against the wall ... or talking to it .... and I KNOW the feeling is reciprocated ...

 

You guys keep trying to figure God out. He already has everything figured out.

One day I'm sure he'd love to explain it to you if you'd allow him.

Until then, by all means, keep trying to make sense of a world that doesn't make sense....

 

Best post of the thread.

 

The reasoning behind my question was that many of these people claiming to have NDE's (and I've read a lot of books lately on the subject) come from lives that were absent of any religion, and often a very limited relationship with God. If these experiences are true (or if you truly believe, have faith in their validity, etc.), then why were these people whom did not accept Jesus or and form of a higher power into their lives get to experience such a thing?

I suppose this debate can go on forever, and like Tony said, both sides always end of beating their heads off a wall, because one side wants concrete evidence, and the other simply cites faith as the only backing (understandably so). I actually tend to side on what Trevor said about how everything in this world has to be just perfect to function the way it does, that it seems impossible to be an act of randomness. On the other hand, I also struggle with what VS was saying in that, if God has a hand in this world, there are PLENTY of horrible things that happen under his watch.

 

I struggled with this for a long time, and still do to a point. But then I came to see our world differently. I no longer view it as this place where God is up in his tower controlling everything in a predetermined path.

My theological base deals with the Kingdom of God. Here's are some very short point that fall within this theology:

-The Kingdom of God (KOG) is simply when and where God gets his way.
-There are two teams in this fight, it's not just God getting his way.
-The fight is not over, but has been won (at the Cross). Kind of like D-day. The war has shifted, but there has been and will continue to be battle until we all get to fully experience the KOG.
-This helps to explain why Jesus spoke of the KOG in 3 ways. It has come, it is at hand (on the cusp), and it will come.

Jesus brought the KOG where ever he went. He healed the sick, God got his way. He casted out demons, God got his way. He brought people into relationship with God, God got his way. It still works like that. That's why he taught us to pray, "Your Kingdom Come, Your will be done..."

I could go on indefinitely, and if you want some reading on the subject PM me and I can give you the titles of some great books.

It pains me to see things like what you guys described happen. It's horrendous. But throughout these horrible things, you can often find wonderful stories of how God is able to work even within such circumstances. Stories of Forgiveness, Love, Compassion, all glimpses of the KOG at work.

I've seen God work in me, despite the horrible selfish, prideful decisions I've made throughout my life. He can take bad things that have happened to me, and bring forth amazing healing and understanding for both myself and others.

The more peaks I get at what happens when God gets his way, the more excited and hopeful I am for the day when we get to fully experience the Kingdom!

 

Fitz..awesome response there and for a second thought I was in Church..nice points.

For me it was through some of lifes challenges and experiences that allow me to know that God is real and that he wants to reveal himself to everyone but not everyone cares or is even remotely interested in getting to know him.

God will not make anyone do something they don't want to do...again it is like the Rush song "Freewill" mans fall happened at the Garden and has since allowed us to make our own choices (many wrong) even there God showed his love for us in that he didn't just end it when Adam and Eve fell and ate from the tree of knowledge.

Many of people views of God come from their early child raising yrs....lets say a Father or even Mother was abusive and strong willed...we then tend to view God being the same.....

the funny thing I think is..how we always say how can a Loving God allow this to happen, but when something good happens I don't see people saying...wow thats a Loving God doing that...we view God as doing evil and allowing evil things to happen to children and what not, but not good things that happen to people or in the world...hmm wonder why? so fast to blame God but slow (if at all) to Praise him

 

I hope this was a complement

 

it surely was Fitz....nice post