I should preface this by saying I didn't make this post as a complaint. I'm perfectly happy hunting the way I am and how I have to with the property I'm given, but I'm always looking for the "extra" piece to make it even better. Matt's thread about early season vs. rut hunting had me thinking. I know several of our long standing member's attribute their success to finding buck beds during off season scouting, and formulating a plan around that "core" area. It's also quite obvious that some properties simply don't hold mature bucks other than during the various phases of the rut. The reason for this can vary from pressure, food, cover, water, or more likely a combination of these elements lacking in comparison to a nearby area. You can't hunt what isn't there, and I've come to learn that over the past few years of more intense scouting, and more time in stand. Now knocking on doors aside (not gaining access to any other properties, I'm left with what I have to work with), I've tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to morph our property into an area that will encourage at least one mature buck to call the property home for the most part. We've done TSI, food plots, we have water (spring), we have cover, and we have a ~10 acre sanctuary (that for the most part has become a doe bedding area...great during the rut, though). I run trail cameras all year long, and I have 5-7 out at a time on our 90 acres. Based on anecdotal evidence while hunting, what I've found scouting, and my photos, I don't have bucks (other than 1.5yr olds). That's fine. I can live with it. I know that come late October through December, it will get good. Case in point, my last four bucks were shot during the following dates: October 23rd December 2nd December 1st November 9th However, I often still wonder why it is. My theory is the 150 acre property that borders my parent's to the east. No hunting is allowed, and no one by my father and I are even allowed to set foot on it. We mow her fields and she lets me run cameras on it, but no hunting. Every mature buck I have on camera (but maybe 1-2) this summer/fall are on cameras on here property. You can walk out to a vista on her property look over 500yds to a field in the south where nothing is planted, and see several bucks most afternoons/mornings (just glassed two shooters there last Sunday evening). They simply don't have the pressure or human impact there that they do on my parents 90 acres. So, the point to this long winded post. While I'm fairly certain I KNOW why the property I hunt doesn't allow me to target early season bucks, can a situation like this be changed aside from gaining permission to hunt the ground to the east? Have any of you successfully taken a property that traditionally didn't hold mature bucks and transformed it into one that does? Or is this simply an uphill battle that can't be won? I have my thoughts, but am curious what some of you think.
I'm not sure you can draw mature bucks out of a place they know they are safe onto a property they know is more dangerous. So short of puting pressure on the neighboring property, which you may be able to do. If she allows you and your father on the land for non hunting purposes, you could check cams every few days or walk your dog through the woods to apply some non-hunting pressure. But there is no guarantee that the deer will leave that property for yours either. I am actually in a similar situation here and I just enjoy shooting a few does and wait for the rut to bring some big boys through.
MGH... I'd start thinking of the property as a whole (including this huge unhunted sanctuary). Pretend the land is your's for design sake, I AM NOT SAYING HUNT IT.I am stating this as a way to change your thoughts to how can I compete or overcome it to how can I utilize it's existence to better my property. From what I've read this other property doesn't have food other than browse and perhaps mass crop as I didn't read anything about ag fields. Crafting a property into a buck only holding zone is possible guys like Jeff Sturgis and other awesome land habitat guys have proven this strategy...to an extent we've done that to a point even on our small Homestead. However, the vast majority of what guys do for deer; make food plots and leave areas as sanctuaries really feed into doe groups more than bucks....especially mature bucks. A lot of time the sanctuaries we make are not tailored to bucks, going into our sanctuaries each year at the end of seasons should always be a must and segmenting and creating specific buck beds or doe beds depending on our goals should be done. Custom tailoring a bed that only fits one deer comfortable with back rests, hinged or tied down overhead cover of some kind, with security surrounding but sight lines possible and don't forget at least 2 or 3 exits possible. The sad fact is when you have an area that is just thick...it may not have any bedding areas mature bucks like. Also further is the concept that doe families rarely outside of harsh winters when they pile up together like to bed in the same bedding area able to see one another. We've increased our bedding areas holding possibility by simply setting up a couple larger openings and divided them with thick hinging and such to where now we've been known to have two doe groups in our one small bedding area (probably a acre and a half in size). The sad fact though is that you will never be able to recreate sometimes the natural bedding security the mature bucks find...like in an acre swamp by our Homestead property there is a mound that is always dry unless severely flooded and it has a big tree on it. This spot can hold one deer comfortably and the saplings in the swamp and along the exits are just shredded yearly as some buck takes ownership of that mound. It's that kind of amazing beds we have to combat and at times we gotta just accept it's very hard to do so. However, in a case like you've stated the mature bucks love that other property, so you've gotta give them a reason to want to come to your place. Only 3 things will do this that I know of food during certain times, ladies obviously within certain times and then thermal cover for late season bedding if the other property doesn't have it...oh and water if it doesn't. So with that knowledge, and not knowing set ups of properties I would work on having some kind of connective run between this preferred buck holding property (BHP) and your's. I would want to allow a string of smallish safe feeling food plots running from the BHP to a bedding area of your's which you say the does have taken over (not a bad thing). These food plots could be oddly shaped plots or one long winding one...planting a variety of food sources throughout. Along this corridor I would want thick wooded corridor providing concealability between BHP and your's as well. Now they'd have a safe area to travel between at any time and communal communication/food hubs between as well. Those are just quick thoughts but I know nothing of your specific situation, but shift from trying to compete with the BHP and begin to work with it.
I think you have a great situation. Fill your freezer with does before the rut starts and then hunt bucks during the rut. I mainly hunt six different locations and rotate or hunt the properties during their pertinent times. I would not change a thing on your family’s property, I would just add better hunting opportunities in the early season. A spot like you are describing would not get hunted more than 4 times a month by me and all cameras would be on the fringe.
Thanks for the elaborate response, Ty. Appreciated. French, I've done pretty well in the later parts of the season because of the doe groups, but out of curiosity more than anything, I'm always wondering if there's more to it that can't be addressed. Leaving it alone may very well just be the best bet. Here's a quick terrain view of the two properties. The white circles are my last four buck kills (notice the proximity to the property line). The neighboring property has that huge finger that is about 100yds wide, and then drops like a rock on both sides down to the road. THAT is where I think one or two bucks may spend much of their time.
Also, those fields on the neighbors property are unplanted. Haven't had anything in them for 30+ years. My dad and I just mow them for her.
I'll go a different angle here. Instead of working harder, I'd try to work smarter. Would she be open to leasing you the ground?
You should start putting heavy pressure on the sanctuary and less pressure on your property. And you should stack your property before you hunt it.
Um.....he can't hunt it bud. Now if you mean just walking that sanctuary in hopes of blowing it apart with human scent...this could yield good or terrible results.
Agree with this completely. That neighboring property, I would see as a gold mine. It's your sanctuary for the area and without it you may not have any big bucks period. Bust them out of there and they will spread to the surrounding areas alright but will also get shot. I'd focus on making my property as attractive as possible and if all I can get is incredible rut action from the bucks, that's exactly what I'd be happy with. Now, that said..no matter the level of management one is in with their property, there is always a "next level". If a property is perfect...then there are no more questions to be asked and answered.
I meant walking it often. Systematically, of course. I wouldn't just randomly walk it without a plan.
There's actually more to the property to the west, but I cut it off in the screen shot. That first field to the west of the plot is just pasture. The rest of the fields on our property are ag fields we lease to a local farmer. He plants mostly corn with alfalfa in spots. The rest is hay.
The short answer is (from my perspective) you cannot out compete a low pressure sanctuary that you don't own and have limited access to. However it can be utilized better and taken advantage of...which you are doing on some level now. Basically the only thing that I see that the neighbors property offers that yours doesn't is solitary residency. Mature bucks are notorious for seeking that out. The two options are to either make yours similar by slowing traffic and pressure (not likely) or to create more pressure on the neighbor. A third option is to pretty much be happy with things as they are. I think I've pointed out my concerns with hitting the sanctuary, could work but do it at your own risk and may be detrimental in the long term. Number three can be mixed a bit with number one, less pressure/traffic and more habitat improvement. Diverse plot mixes, buffer strip field edges, different and more diverse crop rotations in ag fields and cover crops if at all possible. Allowing one hay field to go native would also be a benefit if a cutting of hay can be surrendered. Don't know what you have in the food plot but there's probably room for better options there that may improve the desired effect.
To me it sounds as if the does are controlling the area on your property. Normal dispersal of buck fawns and does setting up their fawning area by running off other bucks could be what is causing this. Now the thought of killing a few extra does may be something to consider, to allow more room for bucks to take residence. On our property in Ohio where our doe numbers are low we have plenty of bucks of all age classes residing on the property, however the end of October came around last year and all of the older age class bucks disappeared.
Because you're so well documented I would love to see someone in your position go from all food plots to all switch grass or desired bedding to see what the results are.
Not sure who this is directed at but in my experience a drastic switch to one extreme or another isn't a very positive change for any of the wildlife. All cover and bedding will sacrifice quality of body size and antler size if ag/food is otherwise limited and too much food and too little cover will generally sacrifice quantity over quality. Everything in moderation with a general focus on nutritional heavy management seems the most effective thing for quality deer.
I've experienced both ends of the spectrum here. We went from all ag fields and brush to 165 acres fescue and then converted fescue over to all native warm season grass which we had for the duration of a 10 year CRP contract. The NWSG was managed with biennial burns and some fall disking for forbes management. While in fescue, had more deer bedding on the property with a few scattered bucks that traveled on and off the property a lot. Overall quality of the deer went down fast from an ag centric farm. This is when I started food plotting and getting into management, converted the acres to native with food plots. Deer quality started slowly coming back and as I could I added more food plots. Eventually, I hit a fair mix that balanced out residency of bucks and does but I was still extremely limited by limited food acreage due to CRP. The last few years I pretty much stopped managing for deer for various reasons and the quality of our deer continued to drop off drastically from the peak in the early 2000's. CRP contracts started expiring in '11 and the rest expired in '13, I put everything in crop and all the spare corners in plots. Edges are still fence rows that range from 5'-60' wide with hardwood mixed brush and understory of buckbrush and canadian wild rye. We also have 14 good ponds scattered around the property. Now anywhere on the farm you go, there is bedding, food and water within 100 yards except if you're in the middle of the largest crop field then you're about 300 yards from the trifecta mix. From camera surveys, our numbers are way up and the young bucks are starting off with great body size and antlers in comparison with the last few years. Fawn rates seem to be up this year and I had the first two does with triplets on camera that I've seen in years. Though my assessment may be a bit premature given the short time span since expiration of the CRP and change in structure, this is how I've reached the conclusions I've expressed about food heavy management. This also seems to be holding true on all my management projects. I'd add that I've seen more wild quail this year than I've seen since the late 1980's.
