Building arrows

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by stephenky, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. stephenky

    stephenky Weekend Warrior

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    Was wondering what everyone's opinions on a 425 grain arrow set up what arrows and inserts and stuff like that need be 300 spine. Thanks

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  2. Ridgerunner3

    Ridgerunner3 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Use an arrow spine chart as your base. If your adding lots of weight to the front you may want to increase your spine, but a spine chart will get you started.

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  3. stephenky

    stephenky Weekend Warrior

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    I am pretty sure need 300 spine Im going to have arrows at29 inches. Just sorta looking for arrow suggestions and add-ons like weights everyone would recommend to get me at 425 mark

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  4. stephenky

    stephenky Weekend Warrior

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    I have no arrow picked out for this year. Was wondering on arrow and insert combo everyone might suggest for 425 grain arrow

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  5. Fix

    Fix Grizzled Veteran

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    When you increase your FOC you may need to adjust spine. DL and DW also play a part.
    Pick a diameter shaft
    Pick a brand
    Then we can help further. I shoot renagades from Black Eagle at 29 inches and I run about 470ish. I run at a 250 to accommodate the weight behind the outsert so start by picking those two and I'm happy to help after that.
     
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  6. Udine219

    Udine219 Newb

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    +1
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  7. cantexian

    cantexian Grizzled Veteran

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    I hunted with a set up like this for several years and it was adequate on perfectly broadside shots. However, after losing a couple of deer when the arrow stuck in the offside shoulder and failed to provide good blood trails, I am building a heavier set up.
     
  8. Whitetail

    Whitetail Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Easton Axis 300 with 50 grain insert, Flex Fletch FFP-360 vanes. They may turn out little over 425gr. I have been using this set up for years now (and I have several dozen others). They work great for me. All Made in USA too. FWIW My next arrows will be Axis Match Grade.

    The last few dozen arrows I used the free trial of Pinwheel Shaft Selector to determine what length to cut my arrows. All good for me.
     
  9. stephenky

    stephenky Weekend Warrior

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    Thanks.. I am shooting the Hoyt helix turbo at 70lbs 29.5 draw. The arrow I using for 3-d right now is the BE carnivore. I would like medium diameter arrow that is light gpi so I can add wait up front since I wrap and Fletch the arrows my self with four Fletch.

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  10. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    My personal opinion if my hunting draw weight was 70 (which mine's 63) and my draw was 29.5 (which mine is 28.5) my overall arrow weight goal would fall no lower than 600 grains (my current is right around 604 if memory serves).

    Yes, upping weight upfront if you are borderline underspined would lean me to going stiffer spine, but honestly unless you already started at the bottom of the spine for your weight and length this should be a non-issue. *unless you go EXTREME upfront weight which I'm a fan of but have never went insane. I do tip my Black Eagle Deep Impacts with a steel outsert for added weight and shoot a 200 grain single bevel head by Grizzlystiks though.

    My advice is once you find an arrow you wish to go with, which IMO should at least without any head and additional weight added up front (arrow, nock, fletch, wrap and standard insert) should total no less than 325 minimum with your set up.

    From there while I'm a HUGE high FOC guy, every arrow build mixed in with a unique model and make bow but also different strings one option will not always shoot the same out of the same bow given those variables, and even the shooter variable as well. So take the arrow and tip it with standard 100gr or 125 gr heads, and build or have at minimum 3 separate builds off of that arrow you test out and see which is grooving more with your bow. That includes flight but how stabilized that arrow is on impact. That thing should hit straight but most importantly hit and stick...not bounce around. If you can set up a camera and watch this you'll quickly see if the arrow is too light for the force your putting into upon impact.

    Most folks that do this typically will choose one of the heavier options, and in my experience often times the heaviest option. The bow becomes quieter the higher, arrow flight becomes more stable the higher typically, and consistency increases between shots because of the fact the arrow stabilizes faster inflight. Other benefits will be typically increased penetration, better ability for tough impacts (aka bone).
     
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  11. Justin

    Justin Administrator

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    To build a 300 spine arrow at 29 inches long up to 425 grains shouldn't take much. In fact, you'll probably find that you will end up slightly heavier than that even if you didn't intend on it.

    Start with looking at a mid-weight carbon shaft - something around 8.5 to 9 grains per inch. Assuming you're using a lighted nock, arrow wrap, 3 standard-sized fletches (Blazers) you'll be at around 300-310 grains. The rest of your weight is going to come upfront in the insert and broadhead you select.

    Depending on the arrow you're dealing with, there may be multiple insert options to choose from. Your standard aluminum insert is going to be the lightest option, typically around 12 grains. Many companies are now offering a brass or stainless steel option that can weigh anywhere from 50 to 100 grains. I personally like an insert around 50 grains along with a 100-grain broadhead - which is going to bring you a little above that 425 grains that you're looking for.

    If you don't want to immediately commit to the heavier inserts, you can play around with brass weights that screw onto the back of your inserts once they're glued into your arrows. This is a less permanent solution and allows you to play with different weights to see what you like best. It also allows you to fine-tune your weight in smaller increments. I've used weight systems from both Gold Tip and Black Eagle with good success. The downside is that you need to purchase a special tool to install and remove the weights.

    In my experience, that 425-450 range is a good place to be for whitetails. I've killed a pile of them with very similar setups through the years.
     
  12. cantexian

    cantexian Grizzled Veteran

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    For all the reasons that @tynimiller mentioned, I am working on a heavier arrow setup for next season. Right now, I am leaning towards a 300 spine Black Eagle Renegade with 75 grain insert weight added and 150 grain broad head. Total arrow weight right at 600 grains. I am really liking how this flies out of my bow so far. FOC is at 17.9%
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
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  13. stephenky

    stephenky Weekend Warrior

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  14. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Arrow building is a blast. I really enjoyed it while recurve hunting. I am going to go back to the drawing board with my arrows this year with bareshaft tuning.
     
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  15. Ridgerunner3

    Ridgerunner3 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Well I went ahead and assembled three 550 grain arrows. I'll shoot later today to see how they fly. Squared the shafts prior to gluing them in and I'm hoping all goes well. I'll build 2 more to 600 with what I have left to see if i can get a feel for any difference. 20200305_123159.jpeg 20200305_104039.jpeg

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  16. stephenky

    stephenky Weekend Warrior

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  17. cantexian

    cantexian Grizzled Veteran

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    I have built three arrows with 75 brass insert weight behind 56 grain half outsert on my Renegades. I picked up field points of 100, 125, 150, and 200. The arrows seem to do great until total arrow weight gets to 625 or heavier. That seems to be the breaking point for me where the spine becomes weak and the arrows start moving right. Although, I did not notice anything until I backed up to 40 yards. At the 30 and closer I have been good all the way up 625 grains with a 300 spine. Right now, I am looking at doing The 75 grain brass with a 150 head. That would have me right at 600 grains and 17.9% FOC. Hopefully, this weekend I will be shooting this arrow out to 50 and 60 to double-check the spine at longer ranges and then finishing the arrow build. After that, broad head testing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  18. Ridgerunner3

    Ridgerunner3 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I have something up maybe with the bow or rest. Had this thing paper tuned all of a few weeks ago but I'm getting a random kick on some of my shots. Arrow just comes off funny and kicks left, corrects and somehow ends up close to point of aim. D loop may be pinching or the rest is out of time or something. 2 separate brand arrows doing the same random crap and I'm kind of frustrated. Rest is qad ultra btw.

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  19. Ridgerunner3

    Ridgerunner3 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    So I think I've narrowed down my random inaccuracy problem. Nock pinch. Was able to move my d loop to create some space and boom, nailing it. Sadly it closed back down so I hung up the bow. I'll head to the shop tomorrow to get a new loop tied. I will also order some serving and d loop material so I can do this myself in the future. Arrows are sitting at 600 grains with a 125 head. And just to clarify on the accuracy problem. I'm talking random shots landing 3 inches off poa. Not terrible but not what I'm used to. I can also admit when it's just me. Like ah **** I pulled. That's not what I am dealing with. Looking forward to the next couple of weeks of shooting and playing around with even heavier samples.

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  20. cantexian

    cantexian Grizzled Veteran

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    I wish I had the time. Still at work. My time at home is about giving my wife a break.
     

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