Brassicas - Tribute to Lickcreek

Discussion in 'Food Plots & Habitat Improvement' started by MnMoose, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    While reading through LCs thread, I stumbled across his post about Greenfix Chickling Vetch. He mentions it fixes 80-200# of nitrogen and can contain extremely high protein and grows rapidly. Has anyone ever used this seed? Im trying to figure out what the down side to this "miracle" cover crop is?

    By the way, The turnips are looking great! I will try to post pictures soon but some are approaching softball size!
     
  2. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    If it's anything like hairy vetch you couldn't pay me to plant it.

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  3. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    Why is that, because of the reseeding?

    Winter pea is said to be able to fix up to 300# of N and it's a lot easier to terminate and deal with as a cover crop, as is crimson clover.
     
  4. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Yupp, it's ridiculous up here. We've got trials with hairy vetch in it and it spreads everywhere.
     
  5. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    If we were to follow the AC Greenfix with brassicas by discing under the vetch and planting brassicas, would we still have a problem with vetch re seeding?

    Ive also pondered the possibility of planting soybeans inside an electric fence and then overseeding brassicas into the standing beans at the end of July, any thoughts on that idea?

    third idea is to frost seed an annual clover into the previous years exhausted brassicas if they were eaten down to the point that the alleopathic affects are minimal. This would be the least time consuming option for sure!
     
  6. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Not if it doesn't head out. Not sure how long it needs to be in ground for it to have positive soil effects but it might be wasted time and money discing it right away. It also gets so stringy that discing can be a pain sometimes.

    I would do the electric fence option if you have the space. Solar electric fencers work pretty well. I would do it the second week of August or so. I've had really good luck with peas the last couple years too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  7. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    [​IMG]



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  8. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Above picture is the corn that I was telling you I was going to plant some tillage radishes into. I haven't done the beans yet because I can't afford to have them mature too quickly and have to deal with combining through it so that wont be for a little while yet.
     
  9. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    We used to plant then but we are a little more north and it seems like it does better if we move to the end of july, I just wonder if the beans will canopy too much and not let the brassicas grow. It worked well in corn that was ate off at 3' by the deer
     
  10. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    There will be a lot less sunlight in there than the corn. Hope for moisture like we've had this summer.
     
  11. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Here is a dilemma,

    In terms of habitat quality, soil quality, and hunting usefulness which option would be better?

    Frost seeding berseem or crimson clover into exhausted brassica plots, disc under and plant to brassicas in late July,

    or

    Disc exhausted brassicas under in mid May-Early June and plant soybeans and over seed brassicas into soybeans in mid-July to allow for longer germination process

    Both scenarios would be behind a corn visual fence from the road and most likely in a electric fence
     
  12. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    I like berseem clover because it will become available much early in the spring than soybeans, when deer need the nutrition. On the other hand, our property has 2.5 acres of prennial clover on it that was seeded this year, so there will be options for the deer at that time.

    The thing I like about soybeans is their late season attractiveness, the ability to overcome alleopathic effects, and the fact that you dont destroy the cover crop by discing it under. Although, that means it won't fix as much nitrogen by not beign disced under, correct?
     
  13. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Soybeans fix nitrogen through the nodules on their roots so dead plant means no root system or nodules.

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  14. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    What I've been taught is that the deal with legume crops or cover crops is that they have to be inoculated with the right inoculant before they will even grow the nodules and then in most cases, once the plant flowers and produces seed it uses most of the nodules. Beans pretty much use all the N they fixate to produce pods so using beans with the intent to fixate N is futile if they are let go to produce beans. If they are terminated before they flower and grow pods then they likely will produce some N. As long as they grow nodules, they can be rolled down and killed and the N should stay until something uses it though it will degrade naturally at a slow rate.

    I used to be told that soybeans don't use much N, that's wrong and actually the reverse is true, they actually need a lot of N it's just that they generally produce their own. They just don't need much applied but that's not exactly the same thing. Obviously the more they need, the less they'll leave when they're done.

    The complaints I've heard about chickling vetch is exactly this same problem, they grow fast and flower fast and once they start flowering the nodules with the N will be used up. I guess that's okay if it's for browse but not a good thing if it's for a N fixating cover crop.
     
  15. foodplot19

    foodplot19 Grizzled Veteran

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    Nice avatar Covey.
     
  16. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Well I am not opposed to throwing down Urea if I have to. My main goal is to start using our fall plots all year long with some type of cover. That will also help the soil by not being bare for 6 months out of the year if I understand correctly. I just cant decide what is more tempting... frost seed clover or WR and then either disc clover under or over seed into dead standing rye, OR plant soybeans with our 24" 3 row planter and then over seed brassicas... both are very tempting options...
     
  17. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Soybeans with brassica and winter rye broadcast into it.
     
  18. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Are you thinking of planting the brassicas at the same time as the beans? I would assume not since that would be about 120 days until frost.

    I will definitely overseed WR into the beans/brassica mix if the deer have eaten it all down by mid Sept. If I have a good stand going into frost (which may be likely with an electric fence) I dont know if the WR will germinate under the canopy and have enough growth to survive the winter?

    Has anyone tried planting beans straight into standing WR that was overseeded the previous fall? Obviously using a planter. WR should be brown by mid june and then I could come in with the planter and no-till in the beans and knock the WR over providing a mat to keep weeds down and provide valuable seed for chicks and poults. THen come in Mid-Late July and overseed brassicas into the mix?
     
  19. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    I probably missed it somewhere along the line but this is thoughts for next year right?

    I would plant the beans mid May and the brassica in early August right before leaf fall.

    If you have a way of rolling the WR, I'd do that and then plant soybeans into it sometime before the end of June. Then depending on what you'd like to see, throw in clover, brassica or something else of your choosing into the beans. These are just all ways that I would personally do if it were at my farm and probably different than a lot of guys might do.
     
  20. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    If your planter is heavy enough, it will suffice as a crop roller for the rye...just plant through it as the planter knocks it down. The rye has to be caught as it's pollinating, then just plant through it. After it's down as good as it's going to get, you can spray it with roundup to make sure the rye is terminated.

    If the beans come in okay then as they turn yellow you can broadcast any small seeded stuff you want into the beans and you should be good.
     

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