Brassicas - Tribute to Lickcreek

Discussion in 'Food Plots & Habitat Improvement' started by MnMoose, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Here are some pictures as promised. These first few are of May ~ 20th planted brassicas. I threw them into a wheat mix as an after thought since I found some left over seed from last year. I have to say I'm happy with the results! This plot was disced and dragged in.
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    This next plot is on a different property and was planted around June 25th and we disced/tilled the ground then let the rain work the seed in. At first it looked like mixed results but now its looking better and better. Half the plot was existing and half the plot was new this year. I over seeded these plots with Heartland Wildlife Rack Maker. This first was was exiting plot:
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    As you can see some of it germinated great and is about 6-8" tall, while some of it is still germinating. I think if I had rolled these seeds in at the start it would have been much better. Here is the existing half:
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    I will be back in a few weeks to spread Nitrogen and maybe some winter rye. These next series of plots are all first year plots that were also disced/tilled and we let the rain work the seed in. I still over seeded these plots to fill in the bare spots. Most of them I didn't roll in though since it would have damaged the existing plants beyond repair.
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    This plot here had the same planting but for some reason the germination was pretty poor so in this circle I elected to over seed this plot and rolled it in since the soil was still quite soft and black.
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    Here is the after picture from when I rolled the over seed in in.
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    This plot I think had the best germination even though none of the plants are quite as tall as some in the other plots. I decided not to over seed this plot since its germination was alright, but I do think this plot will require some more nitrogen this summer.
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    And this last plot I disced under the failed wheat and dragged in the wheat/WR/soybean mix then I rolled in the brassica mix from the Heartland Rack Maker Extreme mix.
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    Here you can see the difference between dragged on the left and rolled on the right:
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    here is a close up of the roller we built:
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    We used a 55 gallon drum and a put a threaded rod through the middle and then built the frame around that so it would steer and stop correctly. It will slowly leak down to 50% full if filled all the way, but we found that 50 gallons of water is too heavy anyway and we just used 25 gallons (200 lbs).
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  2. BJE80

    BJE80 Legendary Woodsman

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    I try to do it at the same time as I spread urea and that has to be done just before a rain so it works out that way yes. The problem is that if that seed sits on the ground too long the turkeys may gobble it up before it gets a chance to work in. But you don't HAVE TO put it down before a rain either. Its just the way I do it.
     
  3. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Have you ever tried over seeding WR into brassicas, then the next summer over seed brassicas into the standing rye (possibly roll or cultipack) and then over seed new WR into those brassicas that fall, and repeat? so there is continuously either WR or Brassicas in the plot?

    My thoughts are zero tilling, discing, or spraying weeds and lower fertilizer requirements while continuously having a food source in the plot?
     
  4. BJE80

    BJE80 Legendary Woodsman

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    You might be able to do that once but after that its not enough of a rotation to keep from getting disease and/or fungus in your soil. You really need to take a full year off of brassicas to avoid the dreaded fungus. The better thing to do is to just do every other year and rotate.
     
  5. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Do all brassicas come with fungus and disease or just certain varieties? We could also plant beans into the standing rye
     
  6. BJE80

    BJE80 Legendary Woodsman

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    All Brassicas tend to be fairly susceptible to fungus and disease developing if planted in too many years consecutive. I'm certain if you planted anything too many times in a row you would have problems. Brassicas are just known for that issue because people love to keep planting them. But having that WR helps break it up and lets you get by with two years in a row and if you feel lucky maybe 3 years. That will depend on your soils and environmental specifics. There is no cookie cutter answer.
     
  7. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    We have been planting different brassicas into some of the same plots for going on 10 years now.. maybe there is a reason why they don't always grow:)
     
  8. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Plots are looking good but part of your problem with poor germination could certainly be from working the ground too wet the way it looks. Or could be a problem in the future in the those plots yet to germinate at all.
     
  9. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Yeah I learned about the negative effects of working ground that is too wet this year for the first time. I don't think that was too much of a problem for the first go around of planting since it was pretty dry back then in most of the plots. The one that I rolled in the over seed could have very well have been worked too wet, that is lower ground. However, there is a similar sized circle 10 yards away that was a 2nd year plot this year worked the same way with the same moisture in the soil and that plot had decent germination? I think its a mix of not having good seed/soil contact as well as soil conditions.

    If nothing else it will be a learning year!
     
  10. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I think the early one you got everything right and had good weather and conditions. The second area looks as though needed better seed to soil contact and only the tire tracks germinated first, maybe rain related. The third looked like it has some areas that stay too wet, too long for the stage the plants were in and either seed flooded out or the plants did.
     
  11. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    But the interesting this is we didn't drive over that plot :head-scratching: I agree that's exactly what it looked like but we broadcasted that by hand and foot then left?


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  12. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    The first and the third both had a lot of organic matter when we planted them so it is very likely that the seed-soil contact wasn't great. Also, that third (or fourth) plot that didn't germinate well and I rolled the over seed in, is pretty low. I dont know if it had standing water or not but it could have. I think the second plot would have had a decent yield since it was still appearing to germinate.

    I would like to know the success rates of broadcasting brassicas into standing Rye... I am thinking of a rye-brassica-rye-soybean rotation. I am pretty sure with our corn planter and bean plates we can plant right into standing rye. Just not sure on the small seed.

    Any other ideas for a crop rotation to replace brassicas? Hard to beat the tonnage and how palatable it is to deer...
     
  13. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    That will depend on your down pressure; nothing to do with the plates.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  14. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Yeah I know, just didn't want you to think that I was going to use the corn plates when I said corn planter. Its on a 3pt so we can adjust the angle and put all the weight on the disc instead of the packing wheel. It should cut through enough to plant beans like that.

    The only problem we have with beans is that the deer mow them before they even get a chance to grow...
     
  15. greatwhitehunter3

    greatwhitehunter3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Still be ready for a little frustration! We were using full size equipment this spring planting into standing winter rye and it took hours to do a handful of research plots. Not sure how tall your winter rye is so that will affect it.


    Could try some type of fence?
     
  16. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    We don't have any winter rye yet, but most years our brassicas get mowed so we might have to start planting some. Just trying to figure a long term crop rotation plan..
     
  17. BJE80

    BJE80 Legendary Woodsman

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    I would just follow the lickcreek mix rotation schedule exactly as he has shown in his thread.
     
  18. BJE80

    BJE80 Legendary Woodsman

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    Dbltree seed mix and rotation
    Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

    Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

    Brassicas in 45% of plot

    Purple Top Turnips 3#
    Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
    GroundHog Forage radish 5#

    Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

    Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

    Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
    Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
    Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

    Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
    Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

    Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

    Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
     
  19. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    I don't know what LC did for a living but I dont think I can afford that much fertilizer! It looks like the seed is manageable but that would be about 24 bags of fertilizer for our almost 2 acres, and at the rates that we get at the local AG store its 21.50-24.50 per bag, that could be as much as about $625 of fertilizer!
     
  20. BJE80

    BJE80 Legendary Woodsman

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    A. Nobody said Food plotting is cheap.
    B. As you follow that regime your soils will get better and you will not need nearly as much fertilizer.
    C. His suggested amount is conservative. Get a soil test and you prob won't need as much especially if you have been growing crops already there.
    D. You are paying about double what you should be for fertilizer.
     

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