I know it is only Thursday but this is my vote for the Bowhunting.com post of the week. There are those posts you see from time to time that you just keep thinking about and this is the one for me this week.
x2... "If you have a buck at 50 and you are sure enough that he's not coming closer, than I'm sure enough to tell you that you are sitting in the wrong spot" BH.com shirt??
LOL. You guys are funny........when did the post of the week start? I like the idea. I'm gonna start looking for them to nominate.
I'm sorry guys but I just don't get this post. If Ben is admitting that he has matured to a point where he understands his limits then my hat's off to him. If he's saying that a 50 yd shot shouldn't be attempted then I totally disagree. Also his comment about not being in the right spot is somewhat arrogant. We are hunting wild animals that can wander anywhere they want. If he is skilled enough to predict and set up for short shots all the time I'll humbly ask him to teach me how he does it. Maybe I'm just not understanding what he's trying to say?
I'd say 90% of it is this, from how I inferred the meaning in his post. I'd say the remaining 10% is that he's also matured enough as a hunter (read experience, perhaps...) that he's seen enough things go wrong in the time it takes for a shot to break and the impact of the arrow to be realized. I've said it before: a deer can nonchalantly take a step forward as it feeds along at exactly the wrong time and it be totally oblivious to your presence, and a 50-yard tracking job can turn into a six-hour nightmare. I think we honestly all know this, and Ben was alluding to this as opposed to any superior set of hunting prowess.
I would say that 80% of bowhunters understand that 50yd in the woods is past their limit. 5% of the other 20% are good enough to make the shot and the other 15% of that 20% are careless enough or inexperienced enough to not care or know any better and would probably take the shot. As far as his statement about not being in the right spot is a statement of experience IMO. Yes they are wild animals that can roam where ever they please but, deer are creatures of habbit and they have a tendancey to follow the same paths day to day and usually at the same times of the day or very close to it. Thats why they make trails through the woods. If a hunter has done their home work and especially a bow hunter, his stand wouldn't be set up 50yd from the trail to begin with. That being said there are times when they may take the unbeaten path but, as a general rule, they will be on the trail or at least very close to it. Thats my opinion.
I'm curious where you got these stats. Your %'s (right or wrong) are not the point I was trying to make. What I was wondering was whether Ben was saying he wouldn't take the shot or whether no one should shoot 50 yds. The way he worded it it could be taken that a mature hunter won't take a 50 yd shot. As I stated, I disagree. Each situation has to be analized and a decision has to be made to shoot or not. This is true at any distance. A mature hunter knows his ability, the shot conditions, and animal behavior and determines if the shot should be taken. I can't disagree that longer shots are tougher to execute but determining a certain distance as wrong or unethical is not the right thing to do. These "ethics" sort of posts always seem to head in this direction. I certainly wasn't going after Ben, I was just looking for clarification. Oh how I wish it were this easy! What about changing food sorces, wind directions, predators, hunting pressure, the rut, moon phases, weather, scents, sounds, etc. The one thing that I have found out about mature deer is they are unpredictable. Where a deer goes can change day to day and after 35 years of hunting them (and hundreds of miles tracking them) I haven't been able to get to the level of being able to consistantly predict exactly where they will walk. This means (at least for me) I need to be prepared to take shots at other distances/directions than the one I set up for. Again, if Ben is capable of doing this I'd love to learn how he does it. I'm going to assume he was simply overstating the obvious.
The deer I hunt frolic to and fro with no rhyme or reason! hahahaha. But I do understand Ben's post. When he made the point, "If you have a buck at 50 and you are sure enough that he's not coming closer, than I'm sure enough to tell you that you are sitting in the wrong spot" I believe he meant that the hunt just wasn't meant to be and chalk it up to being out of position...kind of a mental thing to get over not being able to shoot and to accept that it just wasn't the right positioning to kill that particular deer.
I find it amazing that a post I thought exhibited a hunter's understanding of his own limitations, the limitations of his equipment and vagaries of chance, maturity in my opinion, turns into a quibble about shot distance.
I'm amazed we have three threads about shooting at long range going on right now. You would think at least one of them would take care of it. The one about shooting broadheads at your maximum comfortable range was by far the most interesting. But, just to be a team player, my favorite post of the week only had to do with one of the words found in it. The rest of it had little to no importance. So I'll give you that word, "...sal****er..." as in sal****er fishing or sal****er taffy. Makes me laugh every time I see it.
Truth! That was my point .... in my opinion debate makes an interesting site ... that being said ... I miss ..... ah, nevermind
For me its more a matter of deserving. I can walk around in my hunting areas an get within 50 yards of deer quite often throughout the day. Can it get to 20? Thats what I want to find out. At the end of the day I want to know I worked hard in return of the animal's life. I want to know that I completely deserved the opportunity. To me, it's all about a natural connection rather than a shooting competition.
Absolutely understood, I knew you that wasn't your intention before I got to this part. Clarification: I'm never gonna tell anyone what their limit should be. My posts intent was three fold. One, to explain to younger/inexperienced archers how effective range can change with time and circumstance. Two, suggest that as archers the nature of our sport is about getting close to our quarry, not seeing how far of a kill shot we can successfully pull off. Three, the shot is a minor part of the hunting equation. A hunter that relies heavy on shooting ability and light on scouting/standing hanging is severely hampering their success IMO. For example, I feel quite comfortable shooting at a relaxed deer at 35 yards. (as some of you do at 50 yards) I strive to set myself up for shots around 17 yards or half of that. Cutting distance down, means cutting down the odds that weird crap can happen. It's kind math that there is more time, distance, obstacles in a 35 yard stretch than a 17 yard stretch. Deer are unpredictable, that's the other thing I was referencing in the post. How can anyone know with any level of certainty that the deer in question is not coming any closer. They can't. Who's to say that you aren't going to get a closer/better shot. I'm the first one say to take the first good shot and not wait for the perfect one, but I guess it's up to the individual to know what's a good shot for them. One of my doe kills last season was the longest shot I've taken on the last 6 deer I've killed, 26 yards. As I squeezed my release she stepped forward. She was feeding, totally relaxed. At 50 yards, it's only math to know that my 25 yard marginal/still lethal hit would have turned to a bad shot.
That is a great statement, there is a lot of truth in there. Shot selection is all about circumstances, only the guy holding the bow can know what is right or wrong.
Thanks Ben, I'm glad you explained what your meaning was. I'm probably guilty of reading between the lines a bit. I usually don't respond to threads that concern ethics because they usually turn into as bruce says "quibbling". The common theme behind all these type threads is that each person must decide what is right for themselves. No disrespect meant, my goal was to understand your post not stir the pot.
