It is a tough problem to have.:D The only place I can honestly say I experienced this "problem" somewhat was Alaska...while certainly not in range per say, I was in sight of upwards of 5-8 P&Y bucks at a single time at times. Many were miles off and all were out in the open of ankle high grass, but to have that many shooters in sight was pretty cool to experience. Next year I probably won't even buy a deer tag anywhere until I tag out in KY first. This year having two tags at once killed me and I ended up eating both my IN and my KY tag.
I whole heartily agree with this BUT then it comes down to numbers. PA/IL as this is my experience only. PA, 1 in 3000 bucks make P&Y IL, 1 in 300 make P&Y (forget where I read this, fact of fiction who the hell knows) Soil, take the 3.5's I've taken over the last 10 years and those same deer would have roughly 20-30" more on their heads had the feed the grounds in IL. Sure PA has some world class antlers but the numbers don't mirror that of IL. It's a Odd's game we're talking and I too like my Odd's in the midwest over my home state. 3000 acres of IL still will kick that ass of 3000 acres in PA regardless of management practices.
I dont have anyone beating down my doors to come bowhunt whitetails with me in Idaho... for the life of me I can't figure it out.. Yeah the mid west ... (right ground) can be pretty amazing. I've hunted ND, Albertas Bowzone and now Iowa.. No comparison in any of them to the ground I hunt whitetails in at home.. They are all better imo from my experience ...in increasing ones odds to get a shot at a PY buck. Still I dont buy into the fact that anyone can consistently kill big mature bucks even on the best ground ..with a bow.. there is more to it than just living or having access to the right ground.
I Want to make clear that I was in no way looking to diminish any one's accomplishments.I don't have an ounce of envy or jealousy in me. I do tire of the "there are big bucks every where you just have to find them" statements.Rob has illustrated a point that is crystal clear.Open the most recent P&Y record book and see how many counties in the big buck states produce large quantities of P&Y entries.Now compare those numbers to the non big buck states.It is like night and day. I know of no one who has saved for years to hunt New York and I don't know of any nationally known deer hunting "experts" who hail from NY or PA or Vermont or New Hampshire.You guy's know that the Benoits do the majority of their hunting in Ontario now right? I do find it comical (meaning no disrespect) when guy's from Illinois,Iowa,Wisconsin,Kentucky,Ohio,Kansas etc.make some of the types of comments that have been made here.I would suggest that you have no idea how good you have it.Even if you have to put in that extra effort. This topic has been beaten to death so I will not beat it any further.
Here in Texas finding that land is really not a problem. The quality of the land you hunt is DIRECTLY proportionate to the quality of your checking account. I you want big bucks you spend big bucks. That or you may beat the powerball like odds and get a draw hunt on some primo public land like Hagerman NWF. Otherwise you do like me and be genuinely happy killing a couple of does a year and work hard at MAYBE seeing a legal buck.
come on out I have over a million acres of public grounds I can put u on! But you will have to fight Ryan and J for the extra bed at my place! LOL
Greg,you know unfortunately you are right.There is a New York hunting forum that I spend some time on and you want to see the arguing that goes on about access and land ownership and leasing etc..I actually believe that it is worse in states where there are fewer quality places to hunt because of the scarcity hunters become much more territorial and sensitive about these things. The down side is it becomes a matter of who can write the biggest check get's to hunt the best area's in those states where there is not quality public land hunting.Gene Wensel wrote about it in one of his books,leasing is here to stay and it will likely end up being the difference for many as to whether they have opportunity to have the high end hunting opportunities.
The hunting in Idaho sucks!! There is no need for any of you to venture out there.It is terribly difficult hunting,the deer herd is being devastated by the exploding wolf population etc. (Do you think they bought it Troy?)
When I say south, I mean bootheel :D. Some good bucks down there, just gotta have the woods to hunt them.
lol I am not to worried about bowhunters killing off the whitetails in these mountains.. I think you would agree as a rifle hunter out here in these big woods.. its a tough enough task with a gun to kill the old boys..
I believe it comes down to more than just where your hunting at. sometimes what is happening around you greatly affects your hunting. example:: my hunting grounds now before we leased it used to get absolutly hammered with hunters as well as the land around it. It took several years of selective hunting to get some slammers, and the land around it also got sold to private owners, and they are more selective. NOW instead of seeing all those 1.5 bucks and occasional 2.5's we are seeing p&y quality animals running around. Sure, im in the midwest and we do have some bigger bucks, but like im saying its not justabout where your hunting, other things come into play also.
I think, generally speaking of course, that the vast majority of the guys on this site would be successful at finding and killing big bucks if put on a property that has been managed for big bucks, regardless of state or region. Most of the guys here are pretty darn knowledgable, work hard, hunt smart, and know what to do when a deer is in range. With that said, that is wear the level playing field ends. Some guys have access to some great land, other guys do not. As Atlas said, did Tribal's skill level and knowledge disappear when he lost his good property? Conversely, did Atlas suddenly become a bowhunting genius when he set foot in IL? No to either. The fact is, if you want to shoot a lot of pheasant, go to SD. If you want to catch Blue Marlin go to the Gulf of Mexico. If you want to shoot Red Stag go to Nova Scotia. If you want to shoot big whitetails go to wherever they are. It's up to you to figure out where that is. It could be an outfitter in the midwest, or it could be a 2.5 hour drive from where you hunt now. Figure it out and do it.
How does that change anything I said?? It SHOULD be full of outfitters...........that ruins it for you, not me. Who cares??...........do you even realize you are answering a question no one asked?? No one has ever said that there isn't better land within a state.............when the same logic is expanded to there are better states within the country you start to cry. I would hate talking about Tribal if I were you too.........because his experiences show you are 100% wrong...........sorry to ruin it for ya Your classic lottery defense...........if a single decent buck falls in any state then obviously the hunters there suck and they just don't work hard enough to get it done...........I've hunted NY for over 20 years AND been to Illinois for comparison. Have you hunted NY??
This NY girl kills bigger bucks in her PJ's than me Bry if I moved to Ohio and lost my land in MI to hunt, I might do worse than I did on MI, or I might do better. In what state are my odds better? Without a doub Ohio, but one still has to fine a place to hunt. The NW public land in Ohio is worlds different from SE or E Ohio. All Duke is saying is within states location varies. If Atlas would have not forked over 2 grand to hunt a week would he had seen all those deer on public land? Or a farm that lets a lot of guys hunt? With money a person can get access to the best lands in Ohio, ILL and other states. In NY Atlas is correct there simple is not any locations, that are free range, that have the deer to get those prices. The best spots are owned I would bet and locked down tighter than a hot dog in bloods hands.
At least someone has the courage and self confidence to admit the obvious truth Why some guys twist, squirm and pout like children EVERYTIME this comes up is nothing short of amusing.
I don't think anyone is disputing that of course there are more oportunities in the big buck states. However.. property in ANY state is what you can hunt. And that exists in EVERY state. This is a truth. Whether you like it.. or not.
