No.. no.. no.. I'm equally as smart as some of our out of staters.. Justin and I were traveling 6 hours from home to hunt that area of our home state that IS full of outfitters. Like I originally stated.. Location is within the state you hunt. And in Illinois.. you pay to play. Much like our states governing system.
It goes with out saying that every state has area's within the state that are better than others.Only a fool would dispute that.But there are many states that have far more quality area's to choose from or what is considered mediocre in a very good or great deer state would be considered exceptional in a poor quality deer hunting state. You give most die hard deer hunters the most recent Pope and Young record book or a game departments management unit kill statistics and that hunter with a reasonable amount of time will go in and kill good quality bucks in the public area's where the hunting is deemed to be to be better. I don't know why some folks get so defensive about this.There is no intent to diminish anyone's accomplishments! It is just a matter of recognizing what is true.Big bucks are more often killed in area's that hold more of them.It really is as simple as that.
I don't think anyone is disputing this Scot. But your point is invalid when hunter (any hunter) hunts the same ground year in and year out (in any state) then goes to another 'big buck state' and implies in that state its easier. When in fact.. he NEVER even tried in his state to make his opportunities better.. he just paid to hunt a SUPREME area of that traveled to state. And it goes both ways. Get the drift. I am the perfect example of this. I constantly move around in my home state.. grabbing 5 or 6 pieces of ground to hunt a year. Usually 2 of these are new. If I stuck to the farm thats closest to myself.. and casually complained (like so many) how my hunting sucks..I would too only shoot a decent buck every other year.. or longer. It's my travels that have taught me 1 superior lesson. YOU cannot kill a 150" buck unless you're hunting where he exists. This truth is the only valid one.. because its true EVERYWHERE. It holds no stereotypes. So while yes.. Iowa.. WI.. Ill.. etc may hold more opportunities.. those opportunities mean squat if all one does is casually complain 'always me'. The same holds true everywhere and in every state.
dont worry your deer are safe, my truck is pointed north at all times.:D:D when i say south mo i mean ozark region thru the bootheel not really mid state like Jefferson co which is close to st.louis ill drive there if you have a good spot? here is a pic of a deer a relative got here a few weeks ago. near my house.
I'm proud to say that I hunt in Georgia. Is this known as a big buck state?....No. However, the GADNR made a few changes over the last few years. We have an exceptionally long firearms season here which plays a big impact on our deer herd. That being said, the DNR still allows us to take 2 bucks per year, only now our 2nd has to be 4 on one side or better. Is this a fix to our problem? Absolutely not but I can honestly say that our herd has improved over the past 10 years. I would be all in favor of a 1 buck limit and a shorter gun season but that'll prolly never happen. Would I like to hunt a "Big Buck" state? Sure. That's not taking anything away from the efforts of hunters in these areas. Doesn't mean it's any easier. Let's face it, putting a big buck on the ground takes a lot of effort on anyone's part. This would just be me putting myself into a better area where that 150" buck you speak of may live. I would love to be able to afford one of those outfitter hunts but in the real world it's just not going to happen for me. In GA, a 150" buck is, in most cases, the buck of a lifetime. They are very few and far between here but do exist moreso in some areas than others. Great thread!!!
I understand the point you are making and agree.The distinction though is that there are very few area's that I can access in my state that yield a realistic possibility of a 140 class buck or better.Regardless of how far I traveled.For me it would be the farm country of the western part of New York and I would be driving 4 to 5 hours.I cannot do that realistically with out that trip being a destination vacation hunt. Again I don't dispute your point in any way.It is a bit like apples and oranges though when one persons state may have 4 or 5 management units that provide a realistic opportunity at Pope and Young class bucks and other states may have 10 to 15 times that many units within their state where that type of potential exists. How many guy's hunting mornings and afternoons and weekends can accomplish that type of travel?Versus the hunter who is within a stones throw of that type of potential?Not many who are married with families and jobs or business's.
If I just hunted the boss's land ( 5000 plus acres ) until the end of season ( 21 days ).... there is only 20 acres actually worth hunting right now. The rest I would be lucky to see a deer. You would think 5000 acres would be great. Most of it is not huntable due to his farming practices and no cover. His land sees very heavy pressure for 2 months of bow season. Now the neighboring land holds a lot of deer. Guess where I am hunting. There is a reason why I gain permission for as much land as possible here. You have to hunt where the deer are. Instead of whining about the Boss's poor hunting land and being envious of hunters in big buck states... Like Duke I will find land that is better to hunt. Tim
Oh and to answer the question... the only reason I would hunt out of state is to hunt with a friend. Could careless if he lives in a big buck state or not. Tim
Just admit that state lines dictate your success and not your hunting knowledge guys, the world would be such a better place. I'd love to hunt outfitted land, just can't afford to....or, won't afford to I guess. I'd rather go on an adventure for $2k than fork it over to some Joe Schmoe a few hours north of here so I can sit in a deer stand for 3 days. But hey, that's just me. I officially struck out on mediocre land in a great state this year. Next year I'll have access to better lands, cause I'm not good enough to get it done where I'm at and I certainly don't want to tough it out trying. LOL I'll just look for better grounds and try and get smarter along the way... like stated earlier, the only lines that mean squat are the property lines.
Rybo.....you make TOO MUCH sense.... I didn't go to KY this year to hunt huge deer.....but were the chances of me seeing one better there.....or here (even with my limited time, there)? I've seen exactly six 100"+ deer in close to 350 sits, here. I saw one in 6 sits, there. I look at it like this..... I'm heading to IL next year....and possibly back to KY, too. If I'm to kill a P&Y caliber buck....are my odds greater in those two states (encompassing less than 10 hunts) or....in my home state....encompassing 5-10 times that number?
I look at it this way.... I live in NY. I could care less if there are more big bucks in the midwest compared to here. I could really care less what someone in Iowa or Illinois is killing. Could care less if they have it easier, harder or the same as I have it in NY. In fact I don't care if it is easier there. I like to work harder than the next guy. More rewarding to me. The more time I spend worrying about states I don't hunt and how many big bucks are there, the less time I'm concentrating on what I have to do for my goals in my state. One thing that stuck out to me in this thread is you HAVE to find the land that has big bucks around. You arent' going to kill what isn't there. A lot of hunters in "non big buck " states get complacement or settle for what they have. I have my main piece of land that I have hunted for 20 years. Fortunately it holds big bucks. All the neighbors play by the same rules and we have developed something pretty good there over the years. However.... my #1 goal in the off seasons are beat down doors and make phone travel aroundetc.... I'm CONSTANTLY looking for new land to hunt. I have ... I don't even know.. around 20 pieces or so right now that i could hunt. Over the years from scouting, cams, hunting, seeing, etc... Ive discarde a lot of pieces that I've had permission to hunt because it just isn't there. Not going to produce what I want for a variety of reasons. So you move on to the next. Over the years I have 3 or 4 good pieces of land that give me good potential for a big NY buck. I've probably go permission to hunt and discarded ... I don't even know how many over the years. Might be close to 100. Got to go where they are or settle for what is on the land you hunt. There really is no in between. As far as outfitters? I'll never go to one. The thought of someone else doing my homework to kill a whitetail makes me ill. Let alone paying for something I already know how to do pretty well. I'll stick it out in NY. I do pretty well here. **one interesting thing though. 99% of big buck hunter migration goes from east to west and not west to east lol. Might be a reason for that.
Gee....I hope my post didn't smell of any of this. I was only noting "odds" on "avg". Not only do I not care (other than to congratulate the successful hunter) what others, elsewhere, are killing.....I wish them all the luck in the world. I don't care (nor do I think about it) if it's easier....harder....or somewhere in between. Non-issue. If my goal was ONLY to kill bigger bucks, I've stated before that I could do that in my home state. Honestly, I don't know of anyone who has a better hunting situation than I. I walk to most of my stands.....and drive 3/4mi. to walk to the rest. I am PERFECTLY content with the size of bucks I'm able to pursue.....and I've found other ways to challenge myself as a hunter (which IS important to ME). My previous post was simply a statement of what I feel the "odds" are (in me taking a "big buck") and how they differentiate from here to "there". Nothing more.
Can't say it much better then that. I could jump in the truck and drive blindly into Ohio and jump into public woods and have a better chance at killing a big buck then all the private farms I hunt in NY combined. I went to a private farm (not outfitter) in Illinois and had numerous sightings of and was at full draw on a MONSTER and passed on a couple bucks bigger then anything I have EVER seen in NY in over 20 years afield.........all in 5 days with never laying eyes on the property in my life. Do I think ALL of Illinois is like this??...........of course not, but on the flip side none of NY is that good........NONE. The bottom line is if you bust your ass in non big buck states you maybe get a crack at a 110" buck or a scrappy basket 8 or the likes. You bust your ass in a big buck state and sooner rather then later you are gonna be staring at a P+Y buck coming your way. Some great examples exist right in these forums for all to see..........Tribal used to lay the smack down on some pretty big bucks on a damn respectable pace. Then he lost that land.............now he is lucky to SEE a 90" buck. Guy goes from KILLING big boys to not even SEEING medium bucks. I have little doubt his skill set did not magically erode when he lost that land. Put him back on some land holding big boys and I would bet his skills suddenly would reappear. Joey Rotts dad..............just "messing around" with an old bow.........starts shooting good enough to figure he can stick a deer so why not try right?? BAM!! 159" buck hits the ground. A story like that on the east coast ends with a 4 ptr hitting the deck and probably equal elation. The Firenock dude flinging arrows at numerous P+Y bucks 40 yards into public land in Illinois and finally nailing a split brow brute...............again, stories like that simply do not and can not be told around here because the deer don't exist on public lands and barely on private. As Rybo said...........overall, on average, apples to apples anyone in the world who tries to say states like Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Kansas, Kentucky etc..........do not offer a better chance at a big buck and better odds for the average hunter to kill one is only kidding themselves. Simply put.............same guy hunting same quality of land is going to kill bigger and more bucks if he lives in one of the above mentioned states then if he doesn't.
I feel guilty even reading all of this...I am EXTREMELY spoiled living in Western IL! The downside is that 10 years ago I had over 500 acres of the best whitetail ground in the world to hunt - for free - just by being nice to landowners...Every bit of it has since been leased and/or sold to outfitters - leases at $45/acre for the good stuff...not worth it just to shoot a deer. But we still have a cabin and small parcel to hunt...I love every minute of it!
Not at all related to your post Jeff. Just speaking of myself and in general from my views on the subject. To be honest... I find myself sticking too much at times to my comfort zone (main land I've always hunted) because it is too convenient for me to pass up. Still has the potential to kill a big buck, but not like some of the other chunks I have obtained. But... like you said, I can walk to my stands from the golf course/hunting lodge in the fall. Everything at my disposal with this place and it makes it a nice situation.
Boys, I will be periodically checking in on this thread to see if you are being naughty or nice..... Love Salma
Living in Iowa I will readily admit that if you hunt smart you have a very good chance to kill a P & Y class whitetail. That being said, I hunted very casually for many years and shot exactly zero P & Y deer. I hunted where there were not a lot of opportunities for good bucks and really knew nothing about big bucks or bowhunting for that matter. I started when I was 12 years old when my family moved to the country. I knew nothing about hunting and didnt have any hunters in my family. Learned by going out, climbing a tree and hoping to shoot the first deer that was dumb enough to get too close. I really didnt get serious about buck hunting until about 10 years ago and things have really changed for me. I hunt better area and hunt smarter. It definitely doesnt mean that I kill a monster every year but have enjoyed some good success and would be the first to admit that there are many hunters on this site that would easily match my accomplishments given the same ground to hunt. It's not fishing in a barrell like some would lead you to believe, but the opportunity for a big buck is here if you are willing to work for it and have the patience to let some really nice deer walk.
Pretty much says it all right there. I also believe that there is ground in every state that has some big bucks on it. Seeking it out and obtaining permission is another thing.
