Really Jeff??? You don't remember the PM you once sent me which I replied to with a not so kind response in return, and then told you to be a man and talk **** openly where all could see??? I know it was about 8,000 posts and two years ago on another related site but really??? Perhaps accusing people of lying and talking to themselves brings out the best in them:D
I didn't say you were lying. I said you were making things up....enabling you to argue with yourself. And, honestly, I don't recall corresponding with you, ever. I had to look at your profile to see what you looked like. Sorry.
Dang GMMAT, making things up is lying isn't it? Making something up would be part of the process of telling a lie in some cases. There could be a straight lie or a made up tale that isn't true which would be a lie. You did correspond with me on HNI and another Member on this forum and HNI sent me a PM telling me a similar tale of their encounter with you when you became frustrated with them. As stated, it was at least 8,000 posts ago and 2 years, you likely forgot the truth
It amounts to common sense...An arrow can be too heavy and an arrow can be too light. Stay moderate and you will do fine with any of the fine broadheads mentioned above. I'm partial to muzzy, the G5 heads and Slick Tricks in the 100-125 Gr. range. What thing I firmly believe in is that I will take a slower heavier arrow over a speed demon any day!!!! A fast miss is still a miss. I also would highly advise staying away from the mechanicals. I sight in with my broadheads. Too many people are looking for a short cut and I think this is an easy way out. Once August comes all I shoot are broadheads and I am as confident as can be for doing it. I like to learn and try different things. My two favorite set-ups are...28" Gold Tip 55-75's with a 125gr. head shot at 60#. Total arrow weight is 403gr at 268 fps = 64.28 Foot Pounds of Kenetic Energy. My second favorite is a 28" Easton 2314 XX78 with a 125gr head also shot at 60#. Total arrow weight is 497gr at 243 fps = 65.18 Foot Pounds of Kinetic Energy. They both tune well and group GREAT!!! The 2314 is a little stiff, but it works awesome and I believe it is better to be a little stiff then not stiff enough! These set-ups also work well with a 100gr head also. Hope this helps.
You have no idea how much it speaks volumns about you. Just a hint so you might get it. You brought up something you saw on the boob tube manufactured to sell you and wow you. That lightbulb might be flickering but I highly doubt it.
Volumes of me??? Your statement just proved that you are are blind to the fact that their show allows one to witness her little arrows taking down 300# deer. She takes down deer as big as your 650gr. arrows are taking if not bigger, and she is using a 55# bow shooting a .500 spine arrow to do it. The manufacturers advertise many things, if used properly many work and many don't. I am not sure why you are so against technology, but many things advertised today have improved bowhunting greatly. You apparently have a distaste for modern equipment and modern bowhunting philosophy. You have no idea how much your comments speak volume to the fact that you are bitter and stubborn in your ways. Do you get it yet
Seems like the lakosky's need to updat the page for the Crush.... their teamed with CX now... http://www.carbonexpressarrows.com/cms/content/team-carbon-express-crush-0 GMMat was right, now your simply aruging for no reason, it's out of hand. Might I suggest microwaving another hot pocket and trolling elsewhere?
Wow wow wow! i'm out of this one, the recess bell has rang, RWK just laid down the top insult of the day. Seriously?
Yea, your right, what was I thinking, I don't buy hunting DVD's to tell me what to buy. I must be crazy. I should be trying to shoot as fast as humanly possible and make deer hunting as easy as possible.
I do not buy them either, though I do enjoy little blondes smoking mature bucks with setups like Tiff's.
I think this is the BIG point that a LOT of people miss...... Part of the "how and WHY" bow's gain KE w/ a heavier arrow.... Looking at some bow tests you can find some interesting results. Bow A is slower shooting a 350 gr arrow than Bow B, but when tested w/ a 475 gr arrow, Bow A shot the 475 gr a FASTER than Bow B did. RWK, I agree that shooting at alert deer isn't the GREATEST idea, but at the same time, you're arguing physics that are actually pretty solid. Heavier arrows carry more energy and penetration in a big part because the BOW will become more efficient and the stored energy is more readily absorbed by the HEAVIER arrow vs. the lighter one. Being a Hoyt guy, I'll tell you that the Hoyts I have are happier with a heavier arrow, much quieter (see blip about string suppressor above). Theoretically, if you're shooting a 403 gr arrow 309fps, you could shoot a 500gr arrow 290-ish...... You get 93ft/# of KE and .643 slug/ft of momentum out of that set-up, while keeping with the "LIGHT" 403gr arrow at 309fps, you have 85ft/# of KE and .553 slug/ft of momentum. Ballistically looking at a trajectory of both, you gain NOTHING by shooting the lighter arrow, except for a little extra noise and stress on your set-up.... At 40 yds, the heavier arrow is still holding 81ft/# of energy while the lighter one maintains 74ft/#......in theory, but you DO gain KE and Momentum with the heavier arrow, and it's a considerable amount..... 9% on KE, but an impressive 16% Momentum. Now I don't really have a horse in this race, but those are the "facts" theoretically, and you can only argue solid "theory" if you have good concrete facts to argue it with.
Doug, I agree with your points. I stated I may go heavier and got this setup due to an error by the idiot at Cabela's. I should be shooting .300 spine arrows instead of the .340 but I had already left and didn't realize it until a week later when I weighed the arrows. I have no need to gain KE or momentum, the current arrows will blow through anything I am gonna shoot. The current arrows with a 100gr. head shoot fine, not so much with a 125gr. head though. This whole mess is in relation to the OP who wanted to shoot deer with a 367gr. arrow and wanted to know if it would kill a deer. His setup will kill deer and he doesn't need to go slower and heavier to get it done. We all have setups that will kill deer, it is just amazing how many people want each other to do it their way
Not at all, I answered the posters question. The rest of you flamed about heavy arrows and needing monster momentum for bone crushing power to kill deer. I never said he should do anything, I only reiterated that he can and would have confidence in his setup and defended his logic.
Sure, you answered it like 2 pages ago. But when anyone else came on with a different view, you wanted to answer thier post too. And not just once, but over and over and over. Like you was on this crusade of "I shoot this so you ought to too". Go back and read thru it and I think even you will see how it got silly after a while. Even other posters came in and told you how silly it got.
Here is the true irony to your statement bittercountry. The poster has a setup that will ethically kill and fit his desire and you sweep in with your Trade Elitist Opinion and try to talk him out of using his ethical setup that fits HIS needs. bigcountry Senior Member Weekend Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Westminster, MD Posts: 102 Quote: Originally Posted by Kennethp7 . An arrow that weighs 367 grains at 280fps will have 63# of KE and an arrow that weighs 590 grains at 220fps will have the same 63# of KE. Why not shot faster and flatter if you can. Again thanks for all of your help. Because physics cannot be ignored. Harder you hit an object, the harder it hits back with the square of velocity. Thats the reason I see compounds shooting 320fps fail to sometimes penetrate the shoulder of a deer but I have with my 58lb zipper shooting a 650gr arrow at 172fps. Do a test, shoot a 50cal BMG into a body of water and find out the penetration compared to a 1oz slug going at 1000fps. The 1oz slug will beat it if simular BC's are compared. Or the classic challenge we have all probably done challenging a 357 shooter to penetrate a 5 gallon bucket full of water vs. a compound. The compound can and usually will penetrate the 5 gallons of water. The 357 most likely will not. This is the heartburn and sadness of this subject. Most young folks don't take the time to know or learn this.
I tend to agree, the difference in his two arrows was negligible at best. You DEFINITELY need a .300 series w/ that Katera, probably even stiffer to steer BH's well, I'd look for something in the .280 spine if you can locate them at a decent price, or consider the other option, drop that thing to down around 75#, then the .300 should be good even for BH's. I think at this point we've derailed this thing way off track, also though, and need to steer it back where it was supposed to be nothing wrong at all with good debate if in the end either party sees the others view in a little better light. Often times in debates no one is wrong, they just aren't communicating well enough to overcome their differences.....
I don't recall flaming heavy arrows and needing monster momentum. I presented facts that countered some of the hyperbole I saw. I don't really care what he shoots, what you shoot, what anybone shoots. The one thing I will point out though, is in all of the threads I have read about lack of penetration, the problem has never been associated with a slower/heavier arrow. Light and very fast can cover up a lot of problems such as piss poor bow tune, mismatch arrow(spine) to bow and a poorly crafted arrows and those were the usual suspects when someone came on and started a thread about lack of pass-throughs. We all agree that a 50# (even 40#) bow and arrow (correctly setup) should get pass-throughs so how can a person shooting a 70# not get a pass-through? My opinion, and my opinion only, is that they are chasing speed (marketing) and not learning their gear enough to set it up correctly. Now I may be old and out of touch but I just cannot fathom how someone wants to take any weapon out to kill with and not understand how to use it properly. Maybe that's today's video game mentality. Everyone wants to "point and shoot" and they do not care to learn about what they are pointing and shooting.
He could also consider more weight up front (help the FOC) but that will make his arrow heavier and slower LOL :D . Civil debates can also provide good information which will benefit even the non-participants.
