First I would ask if you were killing it with your $1,000 setup and $10 arrows lol. Obviously an extreme example. Would I kill a deer to feed my kids I guess is what you're asking me? At that point I'm not sure I would have the equipment to do so. Probably resort to fishing, squirrels, rabitts etc... or a shelter or welfare etc.... But yes if it cam down to it obviously I'm going to do whatever needed to feed my family. Poach, steal, beg ... whatever. At that point label me whatever you want because I wouldn't really care. I'm in survival mode. Slightly different than a guy decked out in $500 in camo, #1000 bow, $250 treestand, $300 rangefinder, $400 binocs, etc...... I guess I just don't see how shooting a deer before or after legal shooting hours is an "ethical decision". Ethical shot? maybe. Ethical decision? I don't get it. That's where I see a big difference between other examples and this one.
So, basically......do what you gotta do to allow yourself to sleep well.....and be cognizant of and willing to live with the potential consequences of your choices. Heck, that's a pretty good outlook for life, in general. I wish we could all just leave it at that.
Jeff you won't win this battle...I hear ya and I agree with ya....Tony, so you are saying that if you were in Va and where we hunt til 30 min past sunset (legal time here) let's say sunset was at 5 pm and it was 5:29 and 40 seconds til it hit 5:30 which is illegal time... and you had a tremendous buck at 10 yds...and I mean a buck you have hunted for weeks and he is the one for a lifetime, and he is slow coming into a clear lane....he finally makes that clear lane and he's at 10. yds and you can see him thru you peep or whatever perfectly....you know time has passed but your not sure how much, but wait you are at full draw how can you check the time to see if you are legal??? you fill in the rest bud......
No hunting 30 minutes after sunset to 30 minutes before sunrise, unless you are trapping or hunting game that can be legally hunted at night. This is what it says in my AGFC book. It does not say you can not hunt to dark. It says its not legal to hunt 30 minutes after sunset to(not or) 30 minutes before sunrise. So its okay to hunt up til right at 30 minutes after sunset.
Pretty much yeah. But I just see a big difference in knowingly bending the law to make an ethical choice to feed my family as opposed to knowingly bending the law to make an ethical shot (not decision) to shoot a big buck. JMO. I don't really care what others do. If they can live with themselves and think they aren't doing anything "wrong" than so be it. But... no matter how you cut it or spin it, it is A LOT different.
If you knew a GW was sitting in a tree with binocs watching you before or after legal shooting hours would you still shoot that monster buck? Why or why not?
It does make a difference to me (what he'd think). That's why I said I'd talk to him....and, I will. I mentioned doing just that when some were calling me a "poacher" for going to stand really early (AM's). He set my mind at ease, there. If he thinks I should check my watch (after hearing my reasoning why I don't), I'll probably do that. Like I said, though, it's likely a non-issue, here (for my woods hunting). I'll let you know what he says, though. I've discussed other areas where "legality" and "ethically" collide. Carrying a sidearm (during bow season) is a no-no in NC. Why is that? Is it to protect the game? Or, something else? If you knew there were meth. labs in your area (AN example), would this law stop you from protecting yourself? Would your family feel better, knowing you had not usurpped a game law while you were beaten to death/stabbed/shot? IMO......most game laws are in place to govern the stupid. People with IQ's higher than that of a fern pretty much know what's "right" and what's "wrong". Again.....my personal opinion. I think everyone should do what they feel is "right".....and also do everything within reason to abide by ALL game laws. The intent of the laws also has to play into this. I don't think for one minute the handgun restriction (during bow season) was put in place to keep me from being able to protect myself. I know my GW had NO ISSUE with me dispatching that deer, last fall.......at night (with a weapon). I won't get into other specifics, but I've also had other instances where the strictest interpretation of the law......and the NCWRC's "intent" haven't exactly meshed. Have I "technically" ("actually" in some folks eyes) "poached"? Yes. Am I proud of it? No. Am I ashamed? Not at all.
Fair enough. I still just view this particular topic different. I just don't see how ethics apply here. If someone can tell me how the ethical thing to do is to shoot a deer before or after legal shooting hours... I'll concede. If someone can tell me it's NOT the ethical thing to shoot a deer to feed your starving kids .... I'll also concede. Otherwise this shouldnt' be a ethics vs. law topic - it should be a law vs. what I feel like doing topic.
I'm not (nor have I ever been) trying to change your mind, here. I'm requesting everyone become free-thinkers. Nothing more. "Ethics" isn't/shouldn't be in play, here.....because "I" think ethics is that voice (PT eluded to) that tells you when you step over the line from "right" to "wrong". I don't hear that voice, hunting as I do. I couldn't do it, if I did. I wouldn't take a legal shot, if it was unethical. I wouldn't take an unethical shot.....even if it was legal. So the question becomes......what's more important....your ethics or legality (since I'm of the mindset that the two are 'sometimes' mutually exclusive)? Easy answer, for me.
It already is.... I tell ya, if I can't feed my kid the last thing I would be doing is hunting, because I wouldn't have the time, money or equipment to do so.
Joe..... It may be different where you live. But, I know a couple families here who probably (wink) hunt year 'round......to sustain. They don't buy new bows (they don't bow hunt). They don't own a vehicle. They don't work (disabled; elderly). Etc..., etc..., etc... . I have NO problems with this. None.
no they're not ....... not at all nor would anyone else, Jeff .... spade a spade tho if you shoot a deer after or before legal hours ... you poached that deer ... there are some voices that are louder than others ...providing for your family, would be one for me ... but the government is ready and willing to do that ...so is there really a need to poach a deer to feed your family? What's laughable is that you say this is what yu are hearing in this thread ,,,, and your not .... no one is saying that ..... but dont duck the label you will get because of definitions of said label
Oh no, not the "poaching deer to feed the family" debate. As if 200 posts wasn't enough in this thread, I could only imagine the clockwatchers geting a hold of this.
Honestly, Tony......Would you take charity....if you could provide for your family, without having to resort to that? I'm aksing you, straight-up....if you could take a deer to feed your family (illegally)........would you rather stand in the bread line? No wrong answer. And this IS an almost absurd example. But, we have folks here who "seemingly" would do NOTHING illegal (when it comes to hunting) for ANY reason. Would you dispatch a suffering animal in June (out of season)? Would you employ a tracking dog....if your state said it was a no-no? Would you carry a sidearm, strictly for protection (albeit illegal by game laws)? Which voice is louder? The one at your state capital.....or the one in your head? Choose one.
Jeff this seems to REALLY bother you that people don't feel the need to break the game laws??? Why is that?
It doesn't bother me at all, Joe. I just don't understand why game laws are more important than other laws.......OR why they somehow (to some) seemingly supercede common sense. And, FWIW, I personally have a hard time understanding why anyone "feels a need" to break any law. I didn't know that was what we were discussing.
